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Old 04-09-2013, 03:20 AM   #1
Whisp
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Default Misslotting/Weakening Discussion

It's a hot-button topic this week and rather than get into it in other people's threads lets discuss it here.

Pros-
~Gets rid of the players who pay enough attention to this game to actually use this tactic
~Protects players who challenge randomly or otherwise pay little attention
~Seeks to punish people who exploit an otherwise useless statistic

Cons -
~Gets rid of the players who pay enough attention to this game to actually use this tactic
~Impacts amount of challenges 'campers' and other higher ranked teams receive
~Not widely known/understood
~Not an actual 'exploit and or modification' of the game system

Those are just a few points from my point of view used as an icebreaker.

Discuss?
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:02 AM   #2
kuuya03
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I agree with ger rids of players lol. The rule just needs to be changed accordingly but simply said i quote aeno just always keep your strongest lineup and i add except when you are training a ninja.although bronze campers get the worst end due to the action against the feediing others,its still doable. NM is a simple game to make complicated rules. No multiaccounting, no trading wins that's it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:37 AM   #3
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The main reason isn't to get rid of people using that quick change tactic (they'll most likely get hated and flamed in chat so everyone stop challenging them eventually anyways so it hurts themselves quite a bit for a quick profit).

It's to make the challenge distribution more fair because people go for teams with misslotted ninjas hoping for easy XP which makes other players get fewer challenges just because they're playing legit. So then those legit players are forced to misslot their ninjas as well simply to get challenges, which just isn't how the game is meant to be played.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:43 AM   #4
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Keeping your strongest team isn't always an option though

Kono-trio ryo farming
trying to level specific ninjas
keeping your team balanced
and other situations others might find themselves in

Edit: the problem isn't that lower ranked teams are being victims (although really it is somewhat of a problem) the problem is that higher ranked teams, i want to say need but its not fair to say that,(need) to use this tactic to actually get challenges. My main has 30 my buddy has 17 in the same timespan vs the 50+ i'd receive 2k team xp lower.

Edit#2: Another nameless friend made a clan so he could get the 3 or so extra challenges from clan wars that hes not getting in the event.
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Last edited by Whisp; 04-09-2013 at 04:50 AM. Reason: Catching up to Aenonar #2 proving a point
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:17 AM   #5
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Well having clan wars using event account is another story. But in general when you are ryo farming laddering or training ninjas,it's better to keep it as 'strong' as possible to avoid whatever consequence especially in event.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
Well having clan wars using event account is another story. But in general when you are ryo farming laddering or training ninjas,it's better to keep it as 'strong' as possible to avoid whatever consequence especially in event.
Do you have a reason, you don't seem to be adding anything to the discussion other than 'just follow the rules and you'll be fine'
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
although bronze campers get the worst end
Yup. Bronze camping has become a serious drag almost of the point of not being worth it at all. Honestly, I would take a TON of prem, or about 3 years of constant play for my bronze camp to be strong enough to break 10K because of the changes to bronze campers. As I've said multiple times, they really need to adjust the rules to just simply not allow exp on summon from teams under X team experience and not make it based on your progression rank (unless the goal was to completely rid the game of bronze campers altogether, in which case, great job!)
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:50 AM   #8
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Well I was unsure of the rule because for years now I've seen teams sandbagging matches, people leave their team completely naked for days on end and they weren't banned for it. The only time I see misslotted teams switch to full strength is during CW's. It's a sheisty tactic but I've never seen people get banned for that either, so where is the line drawn?

Even in the 3-7k range you see lots of teams that are nearly naked but are they sandbagging or were they smart and didn't waste ryo on items that weren't in their end-game setup? Things can be misconstrued easily and depending on how a rule is written, it may be hard to tell where the line is drawn on unacceptable.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:54 AM   #9
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@BloodySky ~ I know very little about the issues bronze campers face regarding this topic, mind going into a bit more detail.

@Tomieh ~ That's where the problem lies, multi-accounting isn't a problem until its blatant, and that's where it turns into the "9 other teams are doing it and i get caught" mentality.

I don't think i've ever been so ryo tight that i needed to skip out on purchases entirely for my end game build, but I can see where you're coming from in that sense.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:06 AM   #10
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Specifically, we get what amounts to no challenges at all (red/purple fox teams no longer gain any summon experience from matches against any bronze team no matter how strong that team happens to be) once you reach about 5K team experience, and now we can't even bait or weaken the first few ninjas so that the top teams might have some reason to still challenge us. So basically.. I send out my challenges, and never see any come back. Its incredibly slow (and something the teams like Newbee Ninjas - I - never had to deal with while reaching his level)
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:02 AM   #11
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Ya what's happened to bronze campers is a shame since you may exchange up to gold for returns on both ends but won't receive challs from teams higher than that, ppl don't camp at silver and there isn't that many gold campers either. Keeping a bronze camper to be able to jump on teams during cw's while maintaining the points is kind of meaningless if the growth is gone. Do you atleast get summon exp for challenging reds or purples?

@Whisp, It's not about being tight on ryo, but 50's and 200's don't really add a boost for the cost even most 400's are shoddy compared to all the lw's there are. So you might as well just lvl, receive the most challs you can get and when you do get to gold or rf, you can buy all the moves at once and give yourself a worthwhile boost and use the extra for stats. It's also a solid strat for events since you don't receive challs at the top so stay at the bottom because those lvls matter more than temporary boosts that may cause you to receive less.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:40 AM   #12
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My bronze team is sitting around 8K team experience... I think there are maybe 5 or so active non red/purple teams in that range... So yeah... except for a few pity challenges i get from clan members cause they sick of hearing me whine and a few newbie bronze teams that don't know any better, I get about 2 challenges every 6 or so hours that MIGHT give me some experience. To answer your question though.. Yes. I still get summon experience if I win against a red/purple, so I guess there is at least that.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:58 AM   #13
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@Bloodysky ~ Excluding the summon issue (which is a problem in itself) you basically fit my main argument against this rule to a T, you don't do it do "disturb the balance of challenges" you do it because you won't otherwise get adequate challenges which is a reason people see to be vastly overlooking.

@tomieh ~ I guess I just got into the pattern of buying the skills, beyond easy they're relatively worthless. At this point though they're an anti-cheat get out of jail free card.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:02 AM   #14
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@Bloodysky, That's rough,even if they changed it to xp range and not rank, there would be an issue of people setting their team up to be in a specific range.

Is it possible to have some sort of system that would differentiate teams that are set up properly, kind of like how stats show up red during misslot when stamina penalty is not met? Like have team names show up red , normal for teams that aren't full and yellow for teams that are full and offer a slight exp gain for challenging them because that sounds like a way to promote keeping teams at their best. People already gain less exp for misslotting, people who are too stubborn to fill their team will get less challs and people who fill their teams should theoretically get more for offering a boost. The only exploit would be people could buy shitty items and use those but isn't that a good thing for the challenger? if it's a matter of "oh they'll just switch" then lock items when upcoming challenges are in progress. Did I miss any loopholes?
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:54 AM   #15
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I'm sure such a system could be implemented, but with filters such teams would easily be ignored (ie challenges filtering check AA never see anyone again) and it wouldn't solve the problem that started the issue in the first place, it would just cause a color nightmare for everyone in the battle arena.

Locking teams could go sour if you switch to kono trio to do an LW run and then get perma locked into challenges for an hour or so. (seemingly impossible but still a nuisance)

If there was a way to get a bronze camper or any other team in a challenge drought the same amount of challenges as a midway silver-gold player the drought players wouldn't need the Kung-Fu Treachery to get an extra 10 challenges and since I don't know clearly enough about the game to find a solution to this problem legitimately I figured i'd start a discussion thread to find a way.

Or at least find someone who can defend further alienating the drought players.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:02 AM   #16
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seems like the only swift solution is to rank up. It was a miracle udon updated to show offline teams. though better if there was a per hour automatic fight so everyone gets 24 free chals everyday(possible upgrade named auto challenge).
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #17
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I don't have time to read the whole topic right now.
But I'd like to give my thoughts about the bronze campers issue. What do you think about me suggesting to Udon that the summon exp cap is done by team exp rather than rank?

Example: 7000 team exp can only get exp from teams that have at least 5500+? 1500 team exp or maybe 2000 difference sounds reasonable. Or give your thoughts.

@Edit

Just noticed Tomieh's suggestion. Rofl.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #18
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Hm a rather worrysome idea, for example me. I have 4800 Team xp or so and just changed my summon, so i could only make use of teams with like 3000+ xp, sure its not a problem for me currently but at a higher lvl if you change your summon on forbidden for example and everyone else around your xp range has already lvl 20 summons, you might run into a problem.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:15 PM   #19
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True, that's why it's a solution that needs a lot of discussion.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #20
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That would work much better Mitoru, I've made the same suggestion as well. I believe the rule was put into place to stop intentional feeding of alt accounts, and having a team experience limit (rather than rank) would address this better anyway in my opinion, because it really doesn't take long to rank up to silver.
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