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Old 06-07-2010, 06:06 PM   #41
Sparhawk
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Interesting idea for a supplementary guide Teamish. It should definitely be helpful for those relatively new to the game who might only be interested in a general idea of what the cream of the crop items are.

For some of the comments about accuracy, I can only repeat his disclaimer, in that he's doing this moreso out of fun, and to provide an alternative way of viewing things based off the tools and figures he has access to which at the moment, is only Lunar's analysis since no one else took the time to provide a full breakdown besides him. That being said, obviously the basis for rating each LW is based off a subjective scale (Lunar's), but this shouldn't be held against Teamish.

Hopefully, once Firehydrant can conduct his own thorough analysis, either Teamish or himself can provide another analysis regarding the value of certain LWs. While likely also being somewhat subjective since it's nearly impossible to factor in all hypothetical situations that can come up when measuring the true worth of a LW, it'll hopefully be a lot more accurate given Firehydrant's ability to view things on both sides of the table better than Lunar ever could in my opinion.
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:52 PM   #42
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Can't wait till the ninja ability version of this comes out. Very interesting things going on in this thread.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:25 AM   #43
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#32 Thx for the comments! The reason why i didn't make a extensive explanation is that it's not ment as a "How-to-play guide". As mentioned in previous post, synergies are not added, and that should be player's job how to figure them out (tai+crit, nin+reroll, imm+imm, stam+endurance, ryo gaining, etc.) wich i agree is fundamental part of his playing ability.
Still, as request, ill add that reminder.

I do agree that Luna is overpowered (specially helpfull for the first 4 difficulties) as a begginer Lw, but nerfing it could make more than a couple of players get pretty pissed since, in most cases, they spent a lot of time and effort just to hunt it. Imho, maybe a smooth rework could fit just fine. About TE, well, valkiryan appears to be more powerfull for campers and TE for progressing low sealers (crit+reroll boost)...maybe changing values a bit lowering tai and nin and adding attack? Example: +10 att, +17 tai, +21 nin (its working slightly better on arena, slightly worse on WM)


#34 In disclaimer: *stat= calculated on 300tai/nin --> 300 tai - 10%tai imm= -30tai= 15atk= 1,5atk per 1%.
500tai - 10%tai imm= -50tai= 25atk= 2,5atk per 1%
Is it overrated? ;) If you see, imm is pretty important for higher diffs and camping teams, since your true rivals will have around that tai/nin.

#36 As mentioned, it's not a how to play guide. I really dislike the idea of telling players how they should manage their own teams. As you say, there's a huge difference between progressors and campers, they should already know wich lw fits best to their team.

#40 Serve yourself :)

#41 Thank you very much for understanding the ideas posed, specially that it's nearly impossible to measure objectively the true worth of LWs xD If firehydrant gets an understandable and manageable idea of how stats works, i would be pretty pleased to handle the guide for the purpose
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:04 PM   #44
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Actually, the opposite is true, immunity becomes less important as you go up in difficulty. Because at higher diff your ninja's damage is much higher than your opponent's damage so the extra hits you get from reducing your opponent's damage becomes weaker in comparison to your initial hit.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:14 AM   #45
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Nice Guide GJ guys
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:49 AM   #46
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Can do one for Tornado Edge?
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:33 AM   #47
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Tornado Edge Value: (13,5+15,5) 29
+27 increased Taijutsu
+31 increased Ninjutsu

Last edited by Rebelish; 06-19-2010 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:29 AM   #48
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that's the ryo, not the atk.
this is an atk guide, not what LWs sell for.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:36 AM   #49
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^^ Opps i picked wrong thread i guess.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:08 AM   #50
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i was saying for Tornado Edge too. But looks like they already said :'(.

Claymore,Mullvad Claw,Ice Brand arent there too. :$:$
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:09 PM   #51
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Legendary Weapons: Attack Value Update! [version 1.1]

* Correction on AV's according to Udon's and Firehydrant values for LW creation on Revival Event

* Added some recently found Hard LWs.

* Correction to those nerfed Extreme LWs

*Added new Impossible LWs and modified those existing before (real bad news...go check it!)


Begginer LWs will be added in the next few days, hope you enjoy them!
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:30 PM   #52
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Good job Teamsh (:
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:38 PM   #53
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lol just saw this and I must thank you, Teamish, for confirming my suspicious that the atk value table can't be trusted at all xD I had this suspicious alredy but never cared to verify it...
Revive Armor: 102.75
say, Muramasa: 61.5; Murasame: 52.7; Zangetsu: 43 ...lol...
...sure, sta and end are important and all, but seriously? :P
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakan View Post
lol just saw this and I must thank you, Teamish, for confirming my suspicious that the atk value table can't be trusted at all xD I had this suspicious alredy but never cared to verify it...
Revive Armor: 102.75
say, Muramasa: 61.5; Murasame: 52.7; Zangetsu: 43 ...lol...
...sure, sta and end are important and all, but seriously? :P

Endurance is a really tricky one, it's behaviour can change from being almost useless to being the key attribute of your team: here's a tip, the more powerfull your ninja is, the more effective endurance become. Maybe it's easier to understand with some numbers:

Rikoudo Sennin (Level 55, +80 ninjutsu, Gobi 22, Impossible vs Kyuubi)
Kyuubi Basher v1.3 average results in 100k tries

Option 1:
800
Terrorizer
Demon Hit
avg max damage: 3485

Option 2:
800
Garuda
Terrorizer
avg max damage: 3680

Option 3:
800
Garuda
Revive
avg max damage: 4333

See the difference? It's nearly 900 damage more we're dealing with an endurance setup! Between 1st and 2nd (21+61 endurance/ninjutsu is dealing 200 more damage than 40atk+10%NI) so still it's quite some nice stuff ^^
The same would go with stamina....

This of course, doesn't mean that a ninja with high AV Lws (revive, genji, faerie) would beat any other kind of BA Lw setup (let's say zweihander, demon hit, and silver striker) in a 1 by 1 contest....but well, i guess you got the point
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:25 PM   #55
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@Alakan, see this post http://www.ninjamanager.net/showpost...0&postcount=17
for a brief explanation of the original purpose of the AV table. It should make a lot things much clearer.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:57 PM   #56
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yeah I know what the AV table was created for... and Teamish, u actually prove with ur example what really the point that troubles me is: balancing is done focusing on WM... that's a MMORPG, and the point of a MMORPG is the second M: multiplayer. Balancing should, imho, be based on BA with a focus on camping teams... the point of the game, imho, is NOT beating impossible, since anyone with enough time can beat it (that's just a matter of lvls after all... even a crap team with full lvl100 nins would beat it... as I said, just a matter of time), but achieving the kage title (only five teams can achieve it, not just anyone), and that's what balancing should be focused on imho...

(e.g. try ur end build against an immunity build... my BA calculator is far from perfect but will give u a good idea on what ur chances to win will be... I bet on 0% :P)

I mean, I'm not following the event and I don't even know who the winner is and what lw did he take, but I do know that if it was me I would have taken either a 20%tai 20%nin lw :P sounds balanced to you? sounds like a 'kage title: achieved!' lw to me :P
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:04 PM   #57
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Actually there's a lot of ppl who are not playing this game to camp for kage. The AV table must cater to all types of players and must take into account both WM and BA.

If the AV table had been written exclusively for BA, then that would gimp BA performance of all future LWs in favor of WM performance leading to a rise of must have LWs that have massive amount of stats useful for WM but useless for BA. And pretty much completely ruin all semblance of balance for progression.

If you really want a set of values for BA only then just make your own. Teamish already said in the FAQ that this was just for fun. No self-respecting camper would rely only on AV to judge the BA worthiness of an LW anyways.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:44 AM   #58
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lol,where can i know the mission on which can i find the LW? I want normal guide back :(
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:51 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katashi2009 View Post
lol,where can i know the mission on which can i find the LW? I want normal guide back :(
Are you just plain stupid? http://www.ninjamanager.net/showthread.php?t=487
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:33 AM   #60
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lol,wrong thread :P,sorry
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