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Old 03-05-2013, 01:21 AM   #1
drag0nf0rce
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Default Minor Summon Boost

New Requested Summon Boosts!

Enma
From 4 Sta/6 Res
To 6 Sta/6 Res

Tonton
2 Ryo/6 IF/2 Exp
To 3 Ryo/6 IF/3 Exp

Giant Centipede
3 EleAdv/3 Sta
To 4 EleAdv/4 Sta

Manda
4 Atk/-2 Sta/-2 Res
To 4 Atk/-1.5 Sta/-1.5 Res

Rashoumon
-3 Enemy Atk/2 -Enemy Sta/-0.5 Sta
To 3 -Enemy Atk/3.5 -Enemy Sta/-1.5 Sta

Gedou Mazou
3 -Enemy Atk/5 -Enemy Sta/0.5 -Enemy Nin Imm
To 3.5 -Enemy Atk/5 -Enemy Sta/0.5 -Enemy Nin Imm
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Last edited by drag0nf0rce; 06-20-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag0nf0rce View Post
With the new summon addition i think that some of the older summons need a little boost to stop them from becoming ...obsolete.
I am fairly certain it should have happened sooner if it could, but, better late than never I guess.

Quote:
Ryo Bird
Ryo
From 4%
To 6%
I actually thought it serves its purpose well for the players to farm ryo before getting a combat summon. Maybe 5% if you insist.

Quote:
Umibouzu
EleAdv/Water Dmg
From 3/4
To 4/5
Cha Cost +2
I doubt the chakra cost can be increased as some teams who are using it may not have enough for that. Maybe 4/4 because the Water Dmg is insignificant?

Quote:
Pakkun
Exp
From 4%
To 6%
Looks good, could be a nice rival for Giant Dogs as players need to decide for more Exp or some attack.

Quote:
Ichibi
CritDmg/Wind Dmg
From 2/4
To 3/4
3 Crit Dmg looks broken but this is Ichibi we are talking about... perhaps it will do well as a cheap LSTai summon.

Quote:
Gamabunta
Tai/FireDmg
From 4/4
To 5/5
Make it 6/4 or even 6/5 and I would still think its fine. Nobody will take it seriously when they can get Gobi.

Quote:
Shichibi
Reroll/CritD/End
From 3/2/2
To 3/3/3
You should ask the guy who tried this for his Impossible run for opinions. He got higher authority than anyone on this topic.

Quote:
Hachibi
Tai/CritD
From 4/2
To 5/2 OR 4/3
I prefer 4/3. Hachibi is at a really weird position where most LSTai would go for DBB instead so making Hachibi a high CritDmg summon compared with DBB helps.

Quote:
Lesser Kyubi
Attack/EleAdv/Sta
From 2/3/5
To 4/3/5 OR 3/5/5
(Keep in mind the huge C cost)
4/3/5 is the more relevant option here as it beats both Manda and Gamaken at what they can do for campers. With the two new purple fox summons, it seems necessary to boost it in terms of attack.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #3
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There was a guy that used shichibi on extreme with naruto fng as a kage,and that dude is the admin ;)
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:47 AM   #4
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Crit damage doesn't work above 2/level for summons. It gets insanely OP.

And ryo bird doesn't really have any contenders, 2% on the new summons is just nothing, they could even need a boost to 3% just to make them useful.

Think Ryo bird started out as 6% or 8% but that was just insane and was nerfed in the ryo gain nerf to this perfect 4%. If anything all other summons should be compared to the ryo bird rather than the other way around.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:56 PM   #5
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I'd say Sanbi is in most need of a boost as it is barely decent for anyone in it's current state.

My proposal is giving it 0.5-1 crit dmg/lvl to get a low chakra cost ls tai summon that could possibly make ls tai decent for progression.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:55 AM   #6
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We can buff older summons too, so please continue discussing and come to some agreement and I will update them :)

Chakra cost can't be changed tho because of already existing team setups.

I think Shichibi was reworked when I was using it because it turned out to be really bad in its previous state. AFAIK it's OK right now but a little bit too niche perhaps, and even then not the best choice.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:41 PM   #7
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Right added a few, I'm still adamant that Ryo bird needs a slight boost, but i have nerfed the original suggestion :3

You heard the boss boys, lets get suggestin ;)
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #8
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Gamabunta - Tai up 7(8) / Fire Dmg 4

Lesser QB - Atk 5 / ElemAdv 5 / Sta 5
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalo View Post
Gamabunta - Tai up 7(8) / Fire Dmg 4

Lesser QB - Atk 5 / ElemAdv 5 / Sta 5
Thats a big boost O.o
To both summons, i know we've always said that Gama needs a boost, but thats a Biiiiig one.

And the Lesser QB is also a hefty boost as well, although ill try seeing if Both summons can get a heavier boost seeing as (considering who they are) they are abit weak
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Sanbi
Tai/End
From 2/4
To 2.5/4
I realize that any combat summon that doesn't even have 1.5 worth of attack on it tend to be ignored so maybe 3/4 or even 3.5/4?

Quote:
Rokubi
End/Sta/EneSta
From 6/2/3
To 6/3/4
This and Emma are stamina summons so they will never get picked by the majority who value actual attack higher than stamina...

Quote:
Gamahiro
Tai/CritCha/CritDmg
From 3/1.5/1.5
To 3/1.4/2
I thought getting it to give max Critical Chance is hard enough already... The only way to buff it without messing up the whole thing seems to be increasing the Tai growth.

Regarding the buffs that involve Critical Damage, I agree that 3 CritDmg can get broken but I think it should be acceptable for Ichibi, as giving him more WindDmg won't help and the brokenness of 3CritDmg is offset by his lack of any other useful attributes, so he is nearly useless when you can't roll the Crit.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:49 PM   #11
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Right fixed my Gamahiro typo and also boosted the required...boosts to the summons xD
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:01 PM   #12
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The issue with crit damage is that it allows ninjas to roll outside of the normal attack range. HS can only roll 47.5-52.5% of their nin damage, low seal 2.5-97.5%. So once crit damage goes above 98%, the crit chance turns into plain win chance. Add in some immunities and anti-immunities and you've got something that is unstoppable.

2% needs lvl 50 to give 100% crit damage, or 37.5 as low seal.
3% needs a meager lvl 33/34 or even lvl 25 as low seal.

Highest hit on ladder is childs play. You have a massive 50% chance to hit beyond low seals wildest dreams while they have 0.1% chance (plus reroll) with a 0-1000 range (to make it simple)

Even 2% per level is quite insane really, at least on the high level summons which actually bring other useful stats as a bonus.


Guess how Teamish shredded my LS nin's max attack? Simple crit damage stacking. Not even a high level summon, added in a couple of +crit dmg LW's instead.



If crit damage has a cap, maybe. But that would just make summon balancing even weirder since then both of them would be capped. Diminishing returns would be great for it however.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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what about capping Crit damage at a high level?
Soemthing like 70-80%
Thay way its still incredibly useful, but not an instant win later on compared to some LS nins
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:22 PM   #14
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Capping crit damage would basically kill ls tai as a camper type and it is already extremely weak in progression. Pushing through the progression stage with a slower team should give some reward and atm that is fine with a potentially insane camper. However crit teams are still easily countered with tai immunity and it can't be fully countered with -enemy immunity because there just aren't enough good ones (which is how it should be). A potential game changer would be if someone won all events and got full custom lw setup, them mby crit would become completely broken.

Imo we should just remake Ichibi completely and leave crit damage at 2% so how about:

Ichibi
+1 tai
+1 endurance
+2 crit dmg

Ppl have been saying we need an ls tai low chakra summon so mby this could be decent?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:53 AM   #15
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+1 Tai?
thats pretty useless, even at a higher level he's still useless considering that's his only true attack advantage

I'm not sure if his stats are changeable, however if they are he'll definitely need a boost from what you suggested xD
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag0nf0rce View Post
+1 Tai?
thats pretty useless, even at a higher level he's still useless considering that's his only true attack advantage

I'm not sure if his stats are changeable, however if they are he'll definitely need a boost from what you suggested xD
Up the endurance instead in that case, there are so many +3/+4 tai summons already that we hardly need another one. Also giving him that amount of tai will make him the same as Hachibi but with 11 chakra! So no it woudln't be useless on higher lvls because of the crit... Besides as Udon mentioned previously Shichibi has been remade before so why can't Ichibi be remade now?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:17 AM   #17
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This maybe a weird idea but I think the OW toads needs a bit boost, they have the same att as gobi but for much more chakra and at the end of the game so I think fuka could get +1 tai +1 end shima +1 nin +1 end and so on
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getsuga Tenshou View Post
This maybe a weird idea but I think the OW toads needs a bit boost, they have the same att as gobi but for much more chakra and at the end of the game so I think fuka could get +1 tai +1 end shima +1 nin +1 end and so on
No way in hell. Fuka/Shima/DBB are the most OP summons currently in the game. Gobi is OP as well for its chakra and could use another 0.5 nerf
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aenonar View Post
No way in hell. Fuka/Shima/DBB are the most OP summons currently in the game. Gobi is OP as well for its chakra and could use another 0.5 nerf
I dunno if nerfing Gobi now would be a good idea. Some of the new summons are balanced as Gobi alternatives so if Gobi got nerfed now they would instead be the "OP" progression summons. I think we should just boost a few more summons up to a lvl where they are alternatives to Gobi. If Gobi got nerfed to +6.0 stats then Giant Crustacean for example would be the far better choice for progression when it probably already is on par with Gobi for beginner-medium/hard when teams still need lots of ryo.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seglarkungen View Post
I dunno if nerfing Gobi now would be a good idea. Some of the new summons are balanced as Gobi alternatives so if Gobi got nerfed now they would instead be the "OP" progression summons. I think we should just boost a few more summons up to a lvl where they are alternatives to Gobi. If Gobi got nerfed to +6.0 stats then Giant Crustacean for example would be the far better choice for progression when it probably already is on par with Gobi for beginner-medium/hard when teams still need lots of ryo.
Crusty is somewhat poor in comparison to gobi tbh, the 2% ryo gain doesn't do much until ~lvl 13+ at which gobi atm gives 13 attack to each ninja, which is quite a bit actually. It is 2 less halved chakra though which means you can get it earlier on impossible or use it with 2fng/2fnj/fnk on hard. But that doesn't really offset the damage loss. The ryo gain might be interesting on impossible, but not really enough to offset the damage loss since stats do cost *a lot*. Even considering the extra levels you'd need at least 2 rounds of stat to each ninja when the average is ~4 rounds default, so you're looking at around 72000 ryo needed to offset the damage loss.. Which just... no.... :P

It wouldn't do much about the general summon balancing to remove 0.5 from Gobi. And it really is the go-to summon for pretty much any mode until FM, which is kinda lame...
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