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Old 05-30-2013, 07:38 AM   #1
anson
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Default Regular Ninja Revamp

As the stats for new regular ninjas were discussed, the issue of some existing ninjas being too weak was brought up. I have informed Udon the needs for an old regular ninjas revamp and he has acknowledged the problem. The emphasis of discussion this time should be placed on buffing the weaker ninjas, so that more people will choose them, without changing their Chakra cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by udon View Post
We can't change chakra on current ninjas, that can mess up current lineups. So better just change their other stats.
When the new ninjas are implemented, feel free to compare them with the existing ninjas to see which should be buffed and how should they be buffed. But for now:

Genins Base Attack and Attack Growth
Spoiler:
Hanabi (2): 5+1.3

Kono Trio (6): 4+1

Teuchi and Ayame (8): 9+1.45

Kin (10): 9.5+2.1
Oboro (10): 17.5+2.15
Tenten (10): 11+2.15

Ino (12): 12.5+2.1
Chouji (12): 12+2.15
Kiba (12): 11.5+2.1
Zaku (12): 11+2.1
Hinata (12): 13+2.15
Temari (12): 13.5+2.1
Dosu (12): 12.5+2.1

Sakura (14): 11.5+2.05
Shikamaru (14): 12+2.15
Kankuro (14): 13+2.1
Naruto (14): 12.5+2.15
Sasuke (14): 15+2.2
Shino (14): 14+2.1
Jiroubou (14): 14+2.15
Kidomaru (14): 15+2.2

Rock Lee (16): 15.5+2.25
Neji (16): 16.5+2.2
Tayuya (16): 16+2.25
Gaara (16): 17+2.25
Sakon (16): 16.5+2.2

Shigure (18): 24+0.9
Haku (18): 25+2.6
Shion (18): 23+2.65

FNG(10 when halved):10+3.5
Fresh FNG:30+3.5

Sora (22): 24+2.75

Fuuka (24): 24+2.8

Naruto (34): 24+3.4
Sasuke (34): 22+3.35
Sakura (34): 23+3.4
Shikamaru (34): 23.5+3.4
Ino (34): 25+3.3
Chouji (34): 23+3.4
Neji (34): 23.5+3.4
Tenten (34): 30+3.15
Rock Lee (34): 24+3.45
Kiba (34): 23.5+3.4
Hinata (34): 24+3.4
Shino (34): 23.5+3.4
Gaara (34): 24+3.4
Orochimaru (34): 26+3.4


Jounins Base Attack and Attack Growth
Spoiler:
Yoroi(8):25.5+2.3
Hana(8):22+2.25

Demon Brothers(12):27+2.3
Genma(12):31+1.25
Anko(12):32.5+2.5

Hayate(14):30+1.2
Ebisu(14):25+2.3
Ibiki(14):32.5+2.5
Shizune(14):32+2.55

Iruka(16):24+2.3
Kotetsu(16):30+1.2
Shibi(16):23.5+2.45
Tsume(16):23+2.55
Shikaku(16):24+2.55
Inoichi(16):23.5+2.4
Chouza(16):23.5+2.55
Hiashi(16):25+2.4

Yuura(20):27.5+2.55
Jiroubou(20):24.5+2.7
Kidomaru(20):24.5+2.7
Tayuya(20):24.5+2.75
Sakon(20):25+2.75

Lee(22):34.5+2.9
Gaara(22):34.5+3
Naruto(22):33+3.15
Sasuke(22):33+3.25
Dan(22):33+3.15

Kakashi(24):26.5+2.7
Asuma(24):27.5+2.7
Gai(24):26.5+2.7
Kurenai(24):26+2.75
Baki(24):27+2.75
Yashamaru(24):25+2.7
Kabuto(24):26.5+2.7
Kimimaro(24):27.5+2.85
Mabui(24):34+3.35

Juugo(26):41.5+2.95
Suigetsu(26):37+3
Karin(26):30+2.7
Shizuka(26):37+3.1

Guren(28):41.5+3.3
Kushina(28):40+3.3
Fuu(28):37.5+3.4

Kimimaro(30):43.5+3.25
Zabuza(30):41.5+3.25
Yahiko(30):43+3.25
Pakura(30):71+2.45

Ginkaku(32):42+3.45
Kinkaku(32):42+3.45

Omoi(34):39+3.6

Deidara(36):42+3.75
Neji(36):41.5+3.7
Ukataka(36):38+3.75
Nagato(36):42+3.75

Samui(38):43.5+3.8
Kankuro(38):41+3.8
Kurotsuchi(38):42+3.85
Roshi(38):46+3.7

Kabuto(40):43+3.75
Hidan(40):42.5+3.75
Torune(40):38.5+4
FNJ(20 when halved):34+4
Fresh FNJ:54+4

Konan(42):38.5+3.8
Darui(42):47.5+3.75

Gai(44):47+3.75

Tobi(46):38.5+4.05
Yamato(46):39.5+4.05
Chojuro(46):39.5+4.05

Kakashi(48):55+3.55
Killer Bee(48):46+3.8
Yugito(48):58+3.45

Zetsu(50):49.5+3.75
Kisame(50):44+3.85
Itachi(50):45.5+3.85

Sasori(52):45.5+3.8
Pain(52):48+3.9

Kakuzu(56):56.5+3.7


Kages Base Attack and Attack Growth
Spoiler:
Old Gaara(22):48.5+2.8

3T Naruto(26):48.5+3.3
Old Danzou(26):49.5+3.3

Sandaime(30):66.5+1.4

4th KK(34):52+3.3

Yagura(38):62.5+3.5
A(38):62.5+3.5
Shodai(38):62.5+3.5
Onoki(38):87+2.7

Nidaime(40):60.5+3.5
New Gaara(40):64.5+3.6

3rd Raikage(42):60+3.5

2nd Mizukage(44):63.5+3.7
Muu(44):65+3.7

Tsunade(48):66.5+4.1

4T Naruto(50):66.5+3.9

Killer Bee(52):68+3.9

Mei(54):68.5+3.95

Chiyo(56):69+3.9
Ebizou(56):69+3.9

Jiraiya(60):70.5+4.1
FNK(30 when halved):80+5
Fresh FNK:100+5

Kisame(64):74+4.05
New Danzou(64):75+4

Konan(66):80+4

Sasuke(68):82.5+4.3
Hidan(68):85+4.1

Orochimaru(70):76.5+4.1
Hanzo(70):87.5+4.25

Deidara(72):85+4

Sasori(80):87+4.4
Itachi(80):84+4.4
Pain(80):90+4.45
Kakuzu(80):79+4.25
Tobi(80):90+4.45

Madara(90):94+4.5
Yondaime(90):94.5+4.5
Sandaime(90):94+4.5
Nidaime(90):89+4.5
Shodai(90):99+4.5

Naruto BC(140):105+4.9

Naruto Beast(160):125+5.1


Please be noted that the list is only for reference, as some ninjas may have less attack for better stamina/resist and vice versa for example.

At the current stage, we should identify ninjas that need a buff first.

List of ninjas that need buff:
Most Starter Genin (Better Stamina Growth)
Sasuke 350
3T Naruto
4th Kazekage (Rather Unknown)
Muu
Some AT Kages
Bijuu Cloak Naruto

List of ninjas that need nerf:
Yugito
A
Third Raikage

Proposed Change:
Spoiler:
Genin
Stamina Growth for Starter Genin:
Spoiler:
Starter:
Spoiler:
Kin 9+0.7 -> 9+0.8
Tenten 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Ino 6+0.5 -> 6+0.7
Chouji 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Kiba 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Zaku 8+0.6 -> 8+0.8
Hinata 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Temari 7+0.7 -> 7+0.8
Dosu 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Sakura 4+0.5 -> 4+0.7
Shikamaru 4+0.5 -> 4+0.7
Kankuro 7+0.7 -> 7+0.8
Sasuke 4+0.6 -> 4+0.8
Shino 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Jiroubou 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Kidoumaru 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Rock Lee 10+0.8 -> 10+0.9
Neji 10+0.4 -> 10+0.6
Tayuya 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Gaara 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Sakon 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8

Transmigrated:
Spoiler:
Kin 23+1.1 -> 23+1.2
Tenten 18+0.9 -> 18+1.1
Ino 21+0.8 -> 21+1
Chouji 22+0.9 -> 22+1.1
Kiba 21+0.9 -> 21+1.1
Zaku 18+0.8 -> 18+1
Hinata 17+0.9 -> 17+1.1
Temari 18+1 -> 18+1.1
Dosu 18+0.9 -> 18+1.1
Sakura 15+0.7 -> 15+0.9
Shikamaru 16+0.8 -> 16+1
Kankuro 22+1 -> 22+1.1
Sasuke 16+0.8 -> 16+1
Shino 18+0.8 -> 18+1
Jiroubou 20+0.9 -> 20+1.1
Kidoumaru 19+0.9 -> 19+1.1
Rock Lee 25+1.2 -> 25+1.3
Neji 25+0.5 -> 25+0.7
Tayuya 18+0.9 -> 18+1.1
Gaara 19+0.9 -> 19+1.1
Sakon 19+0.9 -> 19+1.1


Jounins
Spoiler:
Yugito
Catwoman
Tai 82 + 5.7
Nin 27 + 1.2
Sta 14 + 0.9
Res 20 + 1.1
Seal 10
Ck 48


Kages
Spoiler:
Naruto
Three-tailed Kyuubi
Tai 96 + 6.6
Nin 21 + 0
Sta 22 + 1.1
Res 11 + 0.6
Seal 15
Ck 26

4th Kazekage
Rather Unknown
Tai 62 + 4.4
Nin 52 + 2.4
Sta 11 + 0.7
Res 14 + 0.7
Seal 9
Ck 34

Kisame
Shark Fusion
Tai 105 + 5.1
Nin 43 + 3.4
Sta 26 + 1.5
Res 24 + 1.2
Seal 10
Ck 64

Pain
Doombringer
Tai 96 + 6
Nin 96 + 2.9
Sta 9 + 0.6
Res 9 + 0.6
Seal 15
Ck 80

Naruto
Bijuu Cloak
Tai 130 + 6.6
Nin 105 + 3.2
Sta 25 + 1
Res 25 + 1
Seal 10
Ck 140


Implemented Change (August 2013):
Spoiler:
Jounin
Spoiler:
Hana
Wolf Sister
TAI 29 + 2.5
NIN 15 + 2
STA 10 + 0.6
RES 8 + 0.5
Seal 10
Chakra 8

Shizune
Apprentice
TAI 29 + 1.7
NIN 35 + 3.4
STA 10 + 0.5
RES 10 + 0.8
Seal 5
Chakra 14

Hiashi
Hyuuga Dad
TAI 25 + 3.1
NIN 25 + 1.7
STA 20 + 0.2
RES 30 + 0.2
Seal 16
Chakra 16

Juugo
Unstable Killer
TAI 46 + 3.4
NIN 37 + 2.5
STA 10 + 0.8
RES 1 + 0.1
Seal 17
Chakra 26

Konan
Origami Girl
TAI 33 + 2.9
NIN 55 + 4.7
STA 22 + 0.9
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 14
Chakra 42

Kakashi
Copy Ninja
TAI 28 + 2.4
NIN 82 + 4.7
STA 11 + 1.1
RES 26 + 0.7
Seal 5
Chakra 48

Kisame
Fishfinger
TAI 55 + 4.0
NIN 33 + 3.7
STA 32 + 1.4
RES 8 + 0.6
Seal 15
Chakra 50

Kakuzu
Greedy
TAI 45 + 5.8
NIN 68 + 1.6
STA 22 + 1
RES 35 + 1.2
Seal 6
Chakra 56


Kage
Spoiler:
Shodai
Reincarnated
TAI 49 + 2.2
NIN 76 + 4.8
STA 15 + 0.9
RES 10 + 1.1
Seal 7
Chakra 38

Nidaime
Reincarnated
TAI 76 + 4.4
NIN 45 + 2.6
STA 28 + 1.1
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 13
Chakra 40

Gaara
Young'un
TAI 20 + 1.1
NIN 109 + 6.1
STA 10 + 1.2
RES 18 + 1.3
Seal 10
Chakra 40

Tsunade
Busty Sannin
TAI 93 + 6.6
NIN 40 + 1.6
STA 11 + 0.8
RES 20 + 1.1
Seal 10
Chakra 48

Killer Bee
Lord Jinchuuriki
TAI 106 + 6
NIN 30 + 1.8
STA 25 + 0.8
RES 5 + 0.5
Seal 5
Chakra 52

Madara
Divine
TAI 88 + 1.2
NIN 100 + 7.8
STA 30 + 0.8
RES 17 + 1.4
Seal 11
Chakra 90


Combos
Spoiler:
Strange Trio

+25 Stamina
+10% Ninja Exp gain


Sound 4

+15 Taijutsu
+15 Ninjutsu
+15 Stamina
+5 Wind Damage
+5% Lvl5 Death

Last edited by anson; 12-25-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:32 AM   #2
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Trying to cover up the crit nerf eh? Jk

Well,if ever people will post here they need to consider the rank the ninja will be available so that they won't go and make two ninjas equal in ck be equal in stat too.

though I agree with kakuzu needing a buff, this guy really needs it

Kakuzu
Greedy
TAI 33 +6.3
NIN 60+ 1.7
STA 22+1
RES 35+1.2
Seal 6

Average attack at 10 level intervals: 47 /83 /123 /163 /203 /243

Or just assume kakuzu's ck was just for variety and be

TAI 33 +6.0
NIN 60+ 1.8


Kakashi
Copy ninja
TAI 28 +2.4
NIN 82 +4.7


EDIT: and what dragon said :)
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:32 PM   #3
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I don't think any buffs will be considered truly necessary until all of the new normal ninjas have been added. for example we can see that some weaker kages need a little boost thanks to the newer ones being added :3
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag0nf0rce View Post
I don't think any buffs will be considered truly necessary until all of the new normal ninjas have been added. for example we can see that some weaker kages need a little boost thanks to the newer ones being added :3
If Udon has acknowledged the issue I don't see why we shouldn't discuss it? If we make a straong case for a few changes I am sure he'll fix it.

Kakuzu is obvious indeed! Up his growth to the same lvl as Pain imo.

I also would like to see these buffed:
Hiashi - Second weakest 16 ck jounin with ridiculously low stamina growth. Imo he's too heavily punished for the Hyuga combos.

Kakashi - Huge cakra cost, good starting stats but the growth is a joke. Compared him to Gai for example. Gai starts at lower stats but will have caught up even at beginner clearing lvls. Imo kakashi should be buffed to 7 in tai/nin growth to become a viable option for lower modes where he is suposed to be strong. One might say his stam growth is a factor that still makes him viable but at low modes his big stamina growth doesn't really reach its full potential.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #5
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I think Kakashi can keep the high base low growth theme like Yugito and Pakura proposed here. We can probably buff him with the purpose of making him an alternate LS Nin Jounin for lower difficulties.

Anyway, thanks for the ideas. Don't forget the Genins and Kages too if you can find any worth buffing.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:06 PM   #6
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I definately agree on kakashi becomming a similar ninja to Yugito. 6.9-7 nin/tai growth somewhere.

Generally I think all starter genins except Lee and mby a few more needs a small boost to their stamina growth to break the current meta for impossible builds where most go with Rock Lee. If more had .7-.8 we'd probably see more Nejis, Sasukes etc. Such a small boost shouldn't really affect beginner progression and mess up the ballance there.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
Trying to cover up the crit nerf eh? Jk

Well,if ever people will post here they need to consider the rank the ninja will be available so that they won't go and make two ninjas equal in ck be equal in stat too.

though I agree with kakuzu needing a buff, this guy really needs it

Kakuzu
Greedy
TAI 33 +6.3
NIN 60+ 1.7
STA 22+1
RES 35+1.2
Seal 6

Average attack at 10 level intervals: 47 /83 /123 /163 /203 /243

Or just assume kakuzu's ck was just for variety and be

TAI 33 +6.0
NIN 60+ 1.8


Kakashi
Copy ninja
TAI 28 +2.4
NIN 82 +4.7


EDIT: and what dragon said :)
Added more to the list after updating the data on first page so perhaps it is time to have the World War here.

For Kakuzu I think we have to increase his base attack as he seems to be meant to be a "high base low growth" based on his inferior growth (this is further supported by the deliberate village placement where he is paired with Tobi, a "low base high growth" Jounin). His stamina and resistance, both base and growth, are great so his attack should be less than what we would expect from an average 56-ck.

Therefore I would like to suggest this:
Kakuzu
Greedy
TAI 45 + 5.8
NIN 68 + 1.6
STA 22 + 1
RES 35 + 1.2
Seal 6
which makes him 56.5+3.7

I like your Kakashi, seems balanced compared with Yugito.

Kakashi
Copy Ninja
TAI 28 + 2.4
NIN 82 + 4.7
STA 11 + 1.1
RES 26 + 0.7
Seal 5
which makes him 55+3.55

Be noted that these are preliminary ideas so they can be greatly changed according to YOUR feedback. Don't like them? Post here and let us know.

EDIT: Not enough blood in this WW so more proposals:

Konan
Origami Girl
TAI 33 + 2.9
NIN 52 + 4.6
STA 22 + 0.9
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 14
which makes her 42.5+3.75

That would make her an alternative of Kabuto CM, with a bit less attack and a bit more Chakra but much better in Sta/Res.

Last edited by anson; 06-10-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anson View Post
Konan
Origami Girl
TAI 33 + 2.9
NIN 52 + 4.6
STA 22 + 0.9
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 14
which makes her 42.5+3.75

That would make her an alternative of Kabuto CM, with a bit less attack and a bit more Chakra but much better in Sta/Res.
Imo she's always been a good alternative to Kabuto CM because she has less stamina issues and slightly better abilities than those of Kabuto. That being said now that you mention it her starting stats looks quite low compared to those of Kabuto, especially since she gets availiable at silver rank and costs more chakra. It could even be justified to buff a bit more even.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seglarkungen View Post
Imo she's always been a good alternative to Kabuto CM because she has less stamina issues and slightly better abilities than those of Kabuto. That being said now that you mention it her starting stats looks quite low compared to those of Kabuto, especially since she gets availiable at silver rank and costs more chakra. It could even be justified to buff a bit more even.
Now that you mention it, the availability difference between Bronze and Silver is quite a lot that she should be much stronger than Kabuto to make up for. How about this:

Konan
Origami Girl
TAI 33 + 2.9
NIN 55 + 4.7
STA 22 + 0.9
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 14
which makes her 44+3.8

Though I am afraid with Konan receiving a huge buff, Kisame, another HS Akatsuki Jounin, needs to be buff as well.

Kisame
Fishfinger
TAI 55 + 4.0
NIN 33 + 3.7
STA 32 + 1.4
RES 8 + 0.6
Seal 15
which makes him 44+3.85

Similar to Konan, Kisame is a Jounin that trades some attack for insane stamina. Decided to buff his growth instead due to his fighting style (gets stronger as battle lasts longer).

I am not sure but, if anyone finds it necessary, we can buff Sasori Jounin as well lol.

Last edited by anson; 06-12-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:23 AM   #10
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no one will stop from buffing every akatsuki IMO lol. just don't let be Sasori = Pain :) and considering that sasori's abilities is more WM friendly than zetsu's 400, I think it should balance out.

a simple suggestion, increase haku's stam to 1.1
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
no one will stop from buffing every akatsuki IMO lol. just don't let be Sasori = Pain :) and considering that sasori's abilities is more WM friendly than zetsu's 400, I think it should balance out.

a simple suggestion, increase haku's stam to 1.1
His base stamina is too high for that growth, and he hasn't shown anything that makes him join the league of A and Kisame to deserve high base high growth in stamina.

EDIT: Time to solo

Hana
Wolf Sister
TAI 29 + 2.5
NIN 15 + 2
STA 10 + 0.6
RES 8 + 0.5
Seal 10
which makes her 22+2.25

Cheapest Jounin, pretty good combo with one starter so made her a bit weaker than Yoroi.

Shizune
Apprentice
TAI 29 + 1.7
NIN 35 + 3.4
STA 10 + 0.5
RES 10 + 0.8
Seal 5

She is the strongest attack-wise in her Chakra level, but even her starting Sta/Res is pathetic compared with them. Since I cannot afford giving her too much stamina growth to make her so good, I have to buff her res growth as well.

Hiashi
Hyuuga Dad
TAI 25 + 3.1
NIN 25 + 1.7
STA 20 + 0.2
RES 30 + 0.2
Seal 16
which makes him 25+2.4

His starting Sta/Res is insane but that is pretty much all he got. He is also unreasonably expensive so he deserves a bigger buff, maybe not big enough.

Last edited by anson; 07-08-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:53 AM   #12
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I am sorry for double-posting but I got an important piece of news that require everyone's attention and participation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Udon
But IMO it would be nice if "Buff for Existing Ninjas" was done before 12th revival (easy mode), which could perhaps start 1 month from now. Doesn't have to be all ninjas, but most of the earlier ninjas are pretty outdated. New LWs could perhaps also fit in that time frame.
So we would like to hear more comments on what we have so far and what we are going to do. Here is the list of proposed buff for Jounins:

Hana
Wolf Sister
TAI 29 + 2.5
NIN 15 + 2
STA 10 + 0.6
RES 8 + 0.5
Seal 10
Chakra 8

Shizune
Apprentice
TAI 29 + 1.7
NIN 35 + 3.4
STA 10 + 0.5
RES 10 + 0.8
Seal 5
Chakra 14

Hiashi
Hyuuga Dad
TAI 25 + 3.1
NIN 25 + 1.7
STA 20 + 0.2
RES 30 + 0.2
Seal 16
Chakra 16

Konan
Origami Girl
TAI 33 + 2.9
NIN 55 + 4.7
STA 22 + 0.9
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 14
Chakra 42

Kakashi
Copy Ninja
TAI 28 + 2.4
NIN 82 + 4.7
STA 11 + 1.1
RES 26 + 0.7
Seal 5
Chakra 48

Kisame
Fishfinger
TAI 55 + 4.0
NIN 33 + 3.7
STA 32 + 1.4
RES 8 + 0.6
Seal 15
Chakra 50

Kakuzu
Greedy
TAI 45 + 5.8
NIN 68 + 1.6
STA 22 + 1
RES 35 + 1.2
Seal 6
Chakra 56
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:51 PM   #13
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i agree with most of all but hana and shizune , idk that part , kakuzu in my opinion needed the boost , same for kisame because his samehada ability sucks , hiashi , reason was already pointed , konan idk why ,

anson answer my question : why konan , shizune and hana need the boost o.o
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuno444 View Post
i agree with most of all but hana and shizune , idk that part , kakuzu in my opinion needed the boost , same for kisame because his samehada ability sucks , hiashi , reason was already pointed , konan idk why ,

anson answer my question : why konan , shizune and hana need the boost o.o
Thanks for your participation. I was worried people would still be uninterested even when I let them know that the buff can be implemented on the next event lol

Konan needs a buff as she is not competitive enough with Kabuto CM having earlier availability (Water Country VS Two Akatsuki Countries), higher attack (Same growth but Kabuto got higher base), less Chakra cost and higher seal. The only thing that Konan wins is her Sta/Res, which is not as important as the advantages Kabuto has on World Map.

Shizune is abnormal as her stamina growth is zero. No other ninja, despite how shitty they are in that part in canon, receives no growth in an attribute.

Hana is weaker than some of the Starter Genin while Yoroi, same Chakra as Hana, looks perfectly normal as a Jounin. The attack gap between Hana and Yoroi is also too high to make any sense.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seglarkungen View Post
Buff his nin instead, he's been given lower growth cause he has really high tai growth and is the only ninja that can do decently as ls tai in progression. Hence imo he should be given a slightly larger buff but too his nin gain/lvl.

Also want to ask if were balancing overpowered ninjas also? Hawk trio could use a nerf imo to open up a wider range of competitive strategies for progression. Mby lowering their stamina combo a bit is best I dunno.
Shodai, boost his stam to 20? IMO we have upset the balance since shodai has starting ave atk of 63 but has low stam and res vs Yagura with same starting ave atk of 63 but better stam growth(even though i know he's balance tai,nin kage)

Nidaime reincarnated
TAI 76 +4.4
NIN 45 +2.6

Gaara young un (40 ck with silver stat IMO) has low starting stam like shodai
tai 30+1.1
nin 109+5.9

Bee kage
Tai 101+6.0
Nin 30+1.8
2 ck from ebizou (after halving)shouldnt be much
Even seg said it himself, time to kill hawk trio? i propose nerfing it stam bonus down to 20-25.

Madara is as UP as nidaime but does not have as high stam,res as nidaime so
tai 88+1,2
nin 100+7.8
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
Bee kage
Tai 101+6.3
Nin 30+1.5
2 ck from ebizou (after halving)shouldnt be much
Buff his nin instead, he's been given lower growth cause he has really high tai growth and is the only ninja that can do decently as ls tai in progression. Hence imo he should be given a slightly larger buff but too his nin gain/lvl.

Also want to ask if were balancing overpowered ninjas also? Hawk trio could use a nerf imo to open up a wider range of competitive strategies for progression. Mby lowering their stamina combo a bit is best I dunno.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seglarkungen View Post
Buff his nin instead, he's been given lower growth cause he has really high tai growth and is the only ninja that can do decently as ls tai in progression. Hence imo he should be given a slightly larger buff but too his nin gain/lvl.

Also want to ask if were balancing overpowered ninjas also? Hawk trio could use a nerf imo to open up a wider range of competitive strategies for progression. Mby lowering their stamina combo a bit is best I dunno.
Well i dont Belive their That , while i agree The stam boost is to much , i Belive it should be around 30-40
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
Shodai, boost his stam to 20? IMO we have upset the balance since shodai has starting ave atk of 63 but has low stam and res vs Yagura with same starting ave atk of 63 but better stam growth(even though i know he's balance tai,nin kage)
Yagura is village-bound and worse seal but the stamina growth and ryo cost do make Shodai a bit too weak, considering Yagura's superior growth in STA/RES.

Shodai
Reincarnated
TAI 49 + 2.2
NIN 76 + 4.8
STA 15 + 0.9
RES 10 + 1.1
Seal 7
Chakra 38

Quote:
Nidaime reincarnated
TAI 76 +4.4
NIN 45 +2.6
That makes him look good compared with A.

Nidaime
Reincarnated
TAI 76 + 4.4
NIN 45 + 2.6
STA 28 + 1.1
RES 28 + 1.1
Seal 13
Chakra 40

Quote:
Gaara young un (40 ck with silver stat IMO) has low starting stam like shodai
tai 30+1.1
nin 109+5.9
I actually think buffing his growth to the level of 42/44ck will make him more appealing and help to cover his late availability/Medium Seal/Terrible Abilities.

Gaara
Young'un
TAI 20 + 1.1
NIN 109 + 6.1
STA 10 + 1.2
RES 18 + 1.3
Seal 10
Chakra 40

Quote:
Bee kage
Tai 101+6.0
Nin 30+1.8
2 ck from ebizou (after halving)shouldnt be much
Also needs some help for his terrible stamina. He still looks bad as an Gold LS Tai Kage compared with Chiyo (LS Nin) and Ebizou (HS Tai) so higher base.

Killer Bee
Lord Jinchuuriki
TAI 106 + 6
NIN 30 + 1.8
STA 25 + 0.8
RES 5 + 0.5
Seal 5
Chakra 52

Quote:
Even seg said it himself, time to kill hawk trio? i propose nerfing it stam bonus down to 20-25.
Continue the discussion, as it can be very influential for event. Meanwhile I will talk to Udon about it.

Quote:
Madara is as UP as nidaime but does not have as high stam,res as nidaime so
tai 88+1,2
nin 100+7.8
Looks good compared with Sandaime.

Madara
Divine
TAI 88 + 1.2
NIN 100 + 7.8
STA 30 + 0.8
RES 17 + 1.4
Seal 11
Chakra 90

Also, the universal starter Genin stamina buff: Current proposal is to increase most growth by 0.2, others by 0.1.
Spoiler:
Kin 9+0.7 -> 9+0.8
Tenten 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Ino 6+0.5 -> 6+0.7
Chouji 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Kiba 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Zaku 8+0.6 -> 8+0.8
Hinata 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Temari 7+0.7 -> 7+0.8
Dosu 5+0.6 ->5+0.8
Sakura 4+0.5 -> 4+0.7
Shikamaru 4+0.5 -> 4+0.7
Kankuro 7+0.7 -> 7+0.8
Sasuke 4+0.6 -> 4+0.8
Shino 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Jiroubou 7+0.6 -> 7+0.8
Kidoumaru 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Rock Lee 10+0.8 -> 10+0.9
Neji 10+0.4 -> 10+0.6
Tayuya 5+0.6 -> 5+0.8
Gaara 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8
Sakon 6+0.6 -> 6+0.8

Last edited by anson; 07-15-2013 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:55 AM   #19
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no really wants to think that they got beaten with an OP combo so lowering it to 30 will bring suigetsu stam to 73 at level 30 with 800 and 400 skill and juugo stam to 145 with FSP, 800,400 skill. karin least affected, down to 133 with 800, 400 skill. still op eh?
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:21 AM   #20
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Boosting must be a boring idea when there is so few response on them. Guess I should make this nerfing discussion a WW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
no really wants to think that they got beaten with an OP combo so lowering it to 30 will bring suigetsu stam to 73 at level 30 with 800 and 400 skill and juugo stam to 145 with FSP, 800,400 skill. karin least affected, down to 133 with 800, 400 skill. still op eh?
Karin does not deserve much attention in this nerf as her stamina growth is high but she is rarely misslot (as Juugo does better than her in that) and her LS nature makes stamina less significant. Even if we take away the 50 stamina bonus, she can still get close to 100 stamina without much difficulties.

Suigetsu is quite worrying as he can currently get very close to 100 stamina with his 400 at the Beginner-clearing levels so the 3rd item slot is often used for Robust to make him even stronger. Unlike the other 2, his 200 sucks so he is only decent at early game compared with Juugo, who beats him with higher base.

Juugo is the key player. It is possible for an FNG to surpass him when he is misslot so he is useful in tanking 4th/8th hit due to his high starting seal. Even at early game, his Akatsuki-tier base attack that goes with his insane stamina makes progression with him an enjoyable cakewalk.

I say we should focus on making Suigetsu's endgame stamina low enough for people to get FSP for him. I haven't done much calculation on it but I say that even if we nerf the combo's stamina bonus to 20, Taka is still competitive on Beginner and Easy.
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