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Old 06-09-2010, 01:09 AM   #1
Firehydrant
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Lightbulb Legendary Weapons: Damage Value

[Ver. 1.1]


IMPORTANT! READ THIS FIRST!
This guide is intended for progression users in difficulties Easy to Impossible with an emphasis on Hard+. Do not use this guide until after you have beaten Beginner at least once or have some basic understanding of the game's mechanics. A lot of advance game mechanics goes into the values presented in this guide and can be difficult for newbies to understand. I strongly advice you to get some in-game experience first before reading further.
Table of Contents:
I. Instructions
II. Damage Value, Damage Multiplier, and Attack Value
III. Formulas
IV. Trends
V. Closing Remarks


I. Instructions

This guide is intended to help progressoin players decide between the large variety of legendary weapons that are available in this game. It does so by providing the Damage Values (DV) of legendary weapons for specific team types. More advanced players will also find listed the Damage Multiplier (DM) of legendary weapons, which is mostly useful for higher difficulty progression. The formulas for these values are listed in the formula section, and some trends in the legendary weapons are discussed.

As of version 1.1, I have added extended 2nd edition Attack Value (AV) as a comparison to the DV/DM. While DV/DM is a true rating system, AV is a guideline for LW creation. I am hoping this comparison will allow you to see that the AV system is really not meant to help players pick LW for progression.

Abbreviation:

Spoiler:

LS = low seal
HS = high seal
DV = damage value
DM = damage multiplier
tai = taijutsu
crit chance = chance to critical hit
crit dmg = critical hit damage
nin = ninjutsu
atk = attack
Sta = stamina
end = endurance
res = elemental resistance
ele. adv. = elemental advantage
m.e.atk = minus enemy attack
m.e.sta = minus enemy stamina
spec. ele. adv. = specific elemental advantage (i.e. fire advantage, water advantage, etc.)
spec. ele. dmg = specific elemental damage (i.e. fire damage, water damage, etc.)
EI = elemental immunity
TI = taijutsu immunity
NI = ninjutsu immunity
m.e.TI = minus enemy taijutsu immunity
m.e.NI = minus enemy ninjutsu immunity
LW = legendary weapon



I.A Instructions for Novice Users
You are a novice user if you have beaten the game once or understands the basic mechanics of the game.

Spoiler:

The first four number listed under each LW are "damage values". They are basically an indication of how much damage on the average you will add to your ninja if you equip this LW. To use the guide, simply choose your team type and look at the corresponding colored number.

For a low seal heavy-nin team you should look at the purple number.
For a low seal heavy-tai team you should look at the dark green number.
For a hybrid seal (3-3) team you should look at the dark orange number.
For a high seal team you should look at the navy blue number.
For a low seal hybrid damage team you should use an average of the purple and green numbers.

The (dark red number in parentheses) just to the right of the LW name is the AV of the LW and is for reference purposes only. This number tells you the class of the LW (i.e. 30-AV class, 60-AV class, etc.) and does not reflect the LW's strength for progression.



I.B Instructions for Intermediate Users
You are an intermediate user, if you understand how stamina and endurance influence progression.

Spoiler:

In addition to the first four numbers described in the novice user section, intermediate users should take note of the black number and (black number in parenthesis). The black number is the "damage multiplier" of the weapon when stamina is not an issue. For example, a DM of 0.3 means this LW will increase your ninja's total damage by 0.3 * 100% = 30%, which is a really big chunk on higher difficulties. The (black number in parenthesis) is the value of DM if stamina is in full effect. For example, if the LW add +40 stamina and your ninja only has 60, the stamina bonus of the LW gives full effect because the 40+60 = 100 does not go over 100.

Note that all high seal ninjas come with a built-in DM of 0.3 thanks to their endurance bonus.



Example:
Luna Sword (52.8)
39.7, 37.0, 36.1, 35.2, 0.00 (0.28)

(Dark red number in parentheses) = AV of LW. It is 52.8 in this example.
Purple number = DV of LW for LS heavy-nin team. It is 39.0 in this example.
Dark green number = DV of LW for LS heavy-tai team. It is 36.3 in this example.
Dark orange number = DV of LW for hybrid seal team. It is 35.4 in this example.
Navy blue number = DV of LW for HS team. It is 34.5 in this example.
Black number = DM of LW assuming any stamina bonus/penalty present has no effect. It is 0.00 in this example.
(Black number in parenthesis) = DM of LW assuming full stamina bonus/penalty has effect. It is 0.28 in this example.
II. Damage Value, Damage Multiplier, and Attack Value

Beginner Legendary Weapons
Zero Sword (-8)
-50.0, -50.0, -50.0, -50.0

Lucky Blade (25)
14.8, 9.9, 19.8, 0.0

Mullvad Claw (16.25)
5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0

Hollow Blade (8)
3.0, 3.0, 3.0, 3.0

Buster Sword (13.65)
3.6, 3.6, 3.6, 3.6

Claymore (12.6)
18.0, 18.0, 18.0, 18.0, 0.00 (-0.13)

Sharp Edge (7.5)
4.0, 4.0, 4.0, 4.0

Ice Brand (15.3)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Magic Sword (10.25)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Wooden Cane (17.75)
6.6, 5.6, 5.3, 5.0

Falchion (13.5)
10.6, 11.3, 10.3, 10.0

Elf Dagger (13)
4.1, 2.8, 5.5, 0.0, 0.00 (0.14)

Golden Axe (16.9)
3.9, 2.6, 5.2, 0.0


Fire/Wind/Lightning/Earth/Water Shield (17.91)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Flametongue (23.75)
12.7, 11.2, 14.3, 8.0

Main Gauche (25.5)
25.2, 25.8, 25.3, 21.0

Warp Knife (26.6)
15.4, 13.0, 17.9, 8.0, 0.00 (0.08)

Zweihander (26.6)
38.0, 38.0, 38.0, 38.0, 0.00 (-0.27)

Gladius (24.9)
17.3, 16.2, 18.4, 14.0, 0.00 (0.13)

Moonstone Armor (33.8)
8.4, 8.4, 8.4, 8.4, 0.00 (0.17)

Arch Sword (24.75)
19.0, 19.0, 19.0, 19.0

Valkyrian (31)
19.0, 19.0, 19.0, 19.0

Vampire Claw (22)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (0.60)

Tornado Edge (29)
35.6, 34.3, 30.8, 29.0

Blood Sword (25)
21.7, 20.5, 22.4, 23.0, 0.00 (-0.14)

Gemstone Shield (37.5)
7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 0.08 (0.25)

Nagrarok (26.5)
6.1, 5.4, 6.8, 4.0, 0.00 (0.28)

Rune Staff (27.5)
10.0, 10.0, 10.0, 10.0

Artemis Bow (22.1)
13.5, 11.4, 15.7, 7.0

Hades Bow (24.75)
16.5, 17.0, 16.2, 16.0

Sword Breaker (27.375)
10.0, 10.0, 10.0, 10.0, 0.00 (0.07)

Fury Fist (22)
15.8, 17.5, 20.4, 22.1

Obelisk (24.5)
18.7, 18.3, 16.8, 16.0

Mana Sword (32.475)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Void Orb (27)
26.4, 22.5, 21.3, 20.0

Shadow Blade (31.5)
2.4, 1.6, 3.2, 0.0, 0.00 (0.34)


Witch Staff (17.5)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Wind Cutter (14.3)
7.0, 7.0, 7.0, 7.0

Silver Rapier (17.5)
6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Steel Maul (16.7)
11.0, 11.0, 11.0, 11.0, 0.00 (0.13)

Ogre Slayer (15)
6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 0.00 (0.18)

Lava Spear (13.3)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Mystic Spear (25)
17.7, 17.3, 15.8, 15.0, 0.00 (0.14)

Luna Sword (52.8)
39.7, 37.0, 36.1, 35.2, 0.00 (0.28)

Death Hand (29.25)
9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 0.00 (0.7)

Bahamut Fang (33.8)
29.0, 29.0, 29.0, 29.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Zanmato (36)
26.7, 24.1, 27.3, 19.5, 0.00 (0.18)

Apocalypse (53.975)
43.6, 38.7, 37.1, 35.5

Zodiac Blade (65.95)
22.9, 21.0, 24.9, 17.0, 0.00 (0.10)

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:09 AM   #2
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Default Easy Legendary Weapons

Easy Legendary Weapons
Gil Sword (21)
1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0

Minerva Robe (38.025)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Dragonbone (37.8)
25.0, 25.0, 25.0, 25.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Magma Sword (48.25)
5.3, 3.6, 7.1, 0.0, 0.13

Hurricane Slasher (32)
21.0, 17.7, 18.4, 14.0

Kukri (23.7)
22.3, 18.8, 19.9, 14.5, 0.00 (0.10)

Bolt Blade (30.5)
17.3, 21.5, 17.6, 14.0

Silver Striker (21.35)
20.4, 20.4, 20.4, 20.4, 0.00 (-0.35)

Alpha Rod (31)
27.6, 30.2, 28.7, 17.0

Holy Lance (33.325)
16.0, 16.0, 16.0, 16.0, 0.00 (0.10)

Exp Blade (52)
3.7, 2.8, 4.6, 1.0

Murasame (52.7)
38.5, 35.6, 38.3, 31.0

Recovery Blade (76)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.25 (0.53)

Dragon Rod (42.25)
12.0, 12.0, 12.0, 12.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:10 AM   #3
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Default Medium Legendary Weapons

Medium Legendary Weapons
Hexa Sword (25.5)
20.0, 20.0, 20.0, 20.0, 0.05 (0.19)

Siren Wish (42.55)
16.3, 13.7, 14.6, 10.5

Daedalus Lance (42.575)
20.0, 20.0, 20.0, 20.0, 0.00 (0.14)

Swordfish Armor (36.3)
10.8, 10.8, 10.8, 10.8, 0.00 (0.09)

Moon Chaser (31.5)
35.6, 30.2, 32.4, 22.5

Mythril Knife (33.35)
22.2, 20.2, 24.3, 16.0, 0.00 (0.12)

Faerie Cloak (53.8)
6.5, 4.4, 8.7, 0.0, 0.13 (0.52)

Atomos Blade (39.075)
21.0, 21.0, 21.0, 21.0, 0.00 (-0.09)

Crying Spear (45.25)
19.6, 22.7, 21.1, 18.0

Spirit Cane (38.75)
25.0, 21.4, 20.2, 19.0

Coma Puncher (32)
31.9, 38.9, 32.1, 26.0

Materia Blade (30.5)
13.2, 11.3, 10.6, 10.0

Griffith Helm (56.5)
6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 0.13 (0.37)

Dark Saber (50.05)
35.5, 39.8, 36.8, 26.0, 0.00 (0.14)

Kung Fu Suit (67.4)
2.5, 7.5, 5.0, 0.0, 0.18 (0.73)

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:11 AM   #4
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Default Hard Legendary Weapons

Hard Legendary Weapons
Zangetsu (43)
39.3, 37.6, 41.1, 34.0

Chaos Blade (43.2)
27.0, 27.0, 27.0, 27.0, 0.00 (0.38)

Dragon Shield (57)
18.0, 18.0, 18.0, 18.0, 0.00 (0.35)

Cosmic Blade (47.775)
32.0, 31.0, 33.0, 29.0

Onion Sword (53.2)
32.5, 31.6, 33.4, 29.8

Skull Rod (57)
15.0, 15.0, 15.0, 15.0

God Hand (41.325)
9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 0.00 (0.20)

Genji Armor (59.8)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (0.42)

Dragon Whisker (60.3)
40.6, 40.6, 40.6, 40.6, 0.00 (0.16)

Ryo Blade (41)
1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0

Muramasa (61.5)
46.8, 43.4, 46.6, 38.0

Orihalcon (65)
28.5, 25.3, 31.7, 19.0 0.08

Mjolnir (53.975)
54.0, 54.0, 54.0, 54.0, 0.00 (-0.17)

Deathbringer (77.25)
27.0, 27.0, 27.0, 27.0, 0.10

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:12 AM   #5
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 890
Default Extreme Legendary Weapons

Extreme Legendary Weapons
Psionic Blade (51.975)
32.8, 34.1, 39.3, 41.9, 0.00 (0.15)

Cursed Ribbon (43.9)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (-0.35)

Revive Armor (103.75)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.33 (0.71)

Immortal Blade (72)
30.0, 30.0, 30.0, 30.0, 0.15 (0.43)

Garuda (56.5)
40.2, 34.3, 32.5, 30.5, 0.14

Ashura Sword (51.75)
31.9, 27.0, 28.7, 20.5

Tortoise Mail (75)
16.8, 16.8, 16.8, 16.8, 0.14

Terrorizer (51)
43.1, 46.9, 44.4, 27.0

Demon Hit (57)
46.0, 46.0, 46.0, 46.0, 0.00 (0.07)

Neo Fang (44)
42.4, 53.4, 43.7, 33.0

Kali Blade (50.5)
48.3, 49.5, 49.3, 34.5

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:13 AM   #6
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Default Impossible Legendary Weapons

Impossible Legendary Weapons
Soul Blade (65.075)
26.0, 26.0, 26.0, 26.0, 0.00 (0.53)

Aegis Armor (68.85)
17.4, 17.4, 17.4, 17.4, 0.00 (0.21)

Gigas Glove (64.55)
40.0, 44.4, 37.7, 35.5, 0.00 (0.16)

Levantine (60.5)
70.3, 68.3, 63.2, 60.5

Demonic Fang (41.45)
60.1, 51.6, 51.6, 42.0, 0.00 (-0.15)

Angel Slayer (68.4)
16.9, 23.2, 29.4, 26.3

Mace of Zeus (68.55)
50.0, 50.0, 50.0, 50.0, 0.00 (-0.24)

Masamune (74.55)
60.1, 55.9, 59.5, 49.0

Ragnarok (75.55)
104.7, 103.2, 106.3, 100.0, 0.00 (-0.41)

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:13 AM   #7
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Default Forbidden Legendary Weapons

Forbidden Legendary Weapons

[in construction]

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Old 06-09-2010, 01:14 AM   #8
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Default Bijuu Cavern and "ONE" Legendary Weapons

Bijuu Cavern Legendary Weapons
Terriblade (30)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Kreimhild (23.5)
28.0, 23.7, 24.3, 19.0

Shiva Edge (61.25)
10.0, 10.0, 10.0, 10.0

Wondersword (53.5)
49.1, 42.0, 43.1, 44.7

Zanzibar (58.75)
62.1, 58.8, 53.2, 50.0

Eskendal (31)
21.0, 21.0, 27.3, 30.4

Attila (33.75)
17.0, 17.0, 17.0, 17.0, 0.00 (-0.14)

Balrog Blade (72)
45.6, 40.7, 46.0, 31.5, 0.08

Brunhild (36.1)
15.1, 20.9, 19.6, 8.4

Egg Sword (37)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0,

Siegfried (65.5)
27.0, 34.6, 31.1, 26.5 0.13 (0.30)
"ONE" Legendary Weapons
Scipio (20)
3.6, 2.4, 4.8, 0.0

Kalamata (24.4)
9.2, 7.9, 7.4, 7.0, 0.00 (0.07)

Bacchae (22)
3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 0.00 (0.35)

Pompeius (24.475)
20.4, 17.5, 16.5, 15.5, 0.00 (0.14)

Trachis (26.8)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Polybia (24.9)
23.6, 26.3, 22.3, 21.0, 0.00 (0.09)

Anatolia (24.3)
15.2, 16.9, 14.3, 13.5

Lechaion (19.55)
11.3, 12.5, 10.6, 10.0

Seleucia (27)
17.3, 18.5, 16.8, 16.2

Syria (22.975)
12.0, 12.0, 12.0, 12.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Adeimantos (24)
7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 0.00 (0.21)

Calabria (21.3)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (0.13)

Cicero (28.5)
11.4, 11.4, 11.4, 11.4

Strabo (25)
30.6, 29.7, 26.6, 25.0

Agamemnon (21)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Crassus (21.575)
9.2, 7.9, 7.4, 7.0

Epirus (20.8)
2.4, 1.6, 3.2, 0.0, 0.00 (0.10)

Lychortas (25.5)
28.9, 24.4, 26.1, 18.5

Cappadocia (27.5)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Pontifex (23.6)
19.6, 19.0, 17.0, 16.0, 0.00 (0.11)

Chrosygonus (23.5)
22.7, 21.9, 19.7, 18.5

Livius (22.2)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00 (0.10)

Babylon (19.7)
0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

Scylax (27)
17.7, 16.2, 15.8, 15.3

Plutarchos (18.5)
15.3, 14.0, 14.8, 10.0

Diadochi (25.5)
30.4, 30.8, 27.1, 25.5
Epic Legendary Weapons
Blade of Badass
Error: attribute not in database, cannot compute!

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:14 AM   #9
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Default

III. Formulas

The damage values of the above LWs are calculated based on the table in this post. Since many attributes like reroll and critical damage only have value for given amount of base stats some assumptions need to be made about each type of teams. I chose to base these stats on a hard team near the point of clearing kyuubi, the last boss. So the average total stat points split between tai and nin is 500. This value is based on a number of sims I've performed on Kyuubi Basher and a number teams that I've seen clear hard.

For LS-nin team, the base nin is 375 (75% of total base) and the base tai is 125 (25% of total base). These values were chosen because the best nin/total ratio you can achieve is ~80%, but since not all your ninjas will have 80% nin 75% was chosen as a compromise. You are assumed to have just over 100 reroll on the average as described in the DV table and your critical damage is just the base value of 25%.

For LS-tai team, the base tai is 375 and the base nin is 125. These values were chosen base on similar rationale as in LS-nin. You are assumed to have an average of ~50% critical damage from base value plus Hachibi (or Shichibi). Your reroll is ~40 on the average, which is just the base LS bonus.

For hybrid seal team, the base tai is 250 and the base nin is 250. These values were chosen based on the idea that hybrid seal team benefits from more attributes on a given LW than LS-nin or LS-tai team but that the total synergy is lower (their summon typically does not synnergize with any one LS damage categories). In short, a even split in tai and nin will give a representative effect of the LW in question for the average ninjas used by hybrid seal team. However, in reality, hybrid seal user will selectively match LWs to ninjas that synergize well with them. Thus the real DV of the synergizing attribute on that LW is higher than what is listed. At the same time, the other non-synergizing attributes will have a lower DV. An example of this is an LW with both reroll and critical damage. Instead of trying tailor each LW to specific ninjas, I decided to leave it general and tailor it to ninjas in general for hybrid seal team. Low seal ninjas on a hybrid seal team are assumed to have ~40 reroll and ~25% critical damage on the average.

For high seal team, base stat only matters for the critical chance attribute. It is assumed that a high seal team will equip any critical chance weapon on a heavy tai ninja so base stat is chosen to be 375 tai, 125 nin for the purpose of that specific calculation.

Here are the formulas for team-tailored DV,

DV for LS-nin = atk+0.563*tai+0.659*nin+0.6*TI+0.6*NI+0.5*m.e.atk+ 0.25*m.e.tai+0.25*m.e.nin+0.5*((base_tai+tai)*0.00 5*crit_dmg+(base_nin+nin)*0.00158*reroll)

DV for LS-tai = atk+0.625*tai+0.563*nin+0.6*TI+0.6*NI+0.5*m.e.atk+ 0.25*m.e.tai+0.25*m.e.nin+0.5*((base_tai+tai)*0.00 5*crit_dmg+(base_nin+nin)*0.00317*reroll)

DV for hybrid seal = atk+0.531*tai+0.532*nin+0.6*TI+0.6*NI+0.5*m.e.atk+ 0.25*m.e.tai+0.25*m.e.nin+0.5*((base_tai+tai)*0.00 5*crit_dmg+(base_tai+tai)*0.0025*crit_chance+(base _nin+nin)*0.00317*reroll)

DV for HS = atk+0.5*tai+0.5*nin+0.6*TI+0.6*NI+0.5*m.e.atk+0.25 *m.e.tai+0.25*m.e.nin+0.5*((base_tai+tai)*0.0025*c rit_chance)

Endurance and stamina both apply global effects to the ninja in question and as such are represented as multipliers. In the case where the ninja in question has enough stamina that the stamina bonus/penalty on the LW has no effect a different multiplier is calculated. The formulas are as followed.

DM w/o sta = 0.005*end

DM w/ sta = 0.005*end + 0.007*sta


To compare LWs with DM, you need to know the ninja's average damage. For example, I have a ninja in a LS-nin team with 250 average damage, stamina is not an issue, and I want to pick between Kali Blade and Immortal Blade. From the table we see the following numbers listed for LS-nin.

Kali Blade, DV: 48.3, no DM
Immortal Blade, DV: 30.0, DM: 0.15

The effective DV of Immortal Blade can be approximated as,

Effective_DV = DV + (base_avg_dmg+DV)*(DM)

Which for the example above gives 30.0 + (250+30.0)*0.15 = 72.0

In other words, Immortal Blade is better for this ninja than Kali Blade despite having a lower DV. Immortal Blade's DM more than made up for the difference. Note, that the effective_DV formula above is an approximation, if two LWs come out close (say within 10%) of each other you'll be able to judge between them better by using simulator.


The use of the (number in parenthesis), which describes stamina effect, is more circumstantial. It can primarily be used when you want to see if an LW that can alter your stamina is better than another. For example, I have a ninja in a LS-nin team with 100 average damage and 100 stamina, and I'm trying to decide between Gladius and Zweihander. From the table we see the following numbers listed for LS-nin.

Zweihander, DV: 38.0, DM: 0.00 (-0.27)
Gladius, DV: 17.3, DM: 0.00 (0.13)

Effective_DV of Zweihander = 38.0 + (100+38.0)*(-0.27) = 0.7
Effective_DV of Gladius = 17.3 + (100+17.3)*(0.00) = 17.3, (the extra stamina had no effect since the ninja was already at 100)

As you can see, Zweihander's stamina penalty almost completely wiped out its attack bonus, so Gladius should be used in this case.

For those who are math-savvy, you can use the DM table to calculate the effect of stamina for cases where only part of the stamina bonus has effect. For example, LS-nin ninja with 100 average damage but 130 stamina choosing between Gladius and Zweihander.

Effective_DM of Zweihander = (130-100-38)*0.007 = -0.056
Effective_DV of Zweihander = 38.0 + (100+38.0)*(-0.056) = 30.3

Due to the extra stamina on this ninja, Zweihander is better than Gladius.


The attack values of the above LWs are calculated based on the table below.

Code:
Attribute            Attack Value 
-----------------------------------
Attack                  1.0      
Taijutsu                0.5      
Ninjutsu                0.5      
Stamina                 0.3
Resist                  0.175    
Specific Resist         0.09
Elemental Immunity      0.25 

Elemental Adv.          0.175    
Specific Ele Adv.       0.1         
Specific Ele Dmg.       0.25      

Endurance               1.0         
Reroll                  0.5      
Critical Damage         1.0        
Critical Chance         0.5      

Negative Atk           -1.0       
Negative Tai           -0.5      
Negative Nin           -0.5      
Negative Sta           -0.3      
Negative Res           -0.175     

Enemy Atk Down          1.0       
Enemy Sta Down          0.3

Taijutsu Immunity       1.4       
Ninjutsu Immunity       1.4      
EnemyTai Imm. Down      1.0         
EnemyNin Imm. Down      1.0    

Ninja Exp               0.5   
Level5 Death            0.25    
Ryo gain                0.8     
Item finding            0.25
This is the extended 2nd edition AV table, so called because it was based on the 2nd edition AV table but extended to include m.e.TI and m.e.NI as well as accomodate a potential nerf to immunity. This table is used for the 3rd Revival event.

Last edited by Aenonar; 09-08-2011 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Restored
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:15 AM   #10
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IV. Trends

There's a couple of things that I discovered from working on these damage values which surprised me.

* The DV of LWs for hybrid seal teams tend to be as high and sometimes higher than that for both LS team types. I didn't realize just how well a hybrid seal team is able to take advantage of the best LWs for different seal and damage types. This could partly explain why hybrid seal teams does so exceptionally well despite using the same summons as HS teams.

* At first glance, HS teams seem to be at a disadvantage in DV gained from LWs. But when you take into account the bonus endurance that HS ninjas get, which translate to a built-in DM of 0.3, it kind of works out. What surprised me though is how strong critical chance is for HS ninjas. If more of them are available, it could put HS teams on par with LS teams for progression. Of course I'm not necessarily advocating that, just an observation of what the DVs are telling me.

* Most people know that Luna Sword and Murasame are the LWs to hunt on beginner and easy. And the numbers shows very clearly why. Both weapons have DVs on par with hard LWs, so their usefulness is guaranteed all the way up to extreme at the very least.



V. Closing Remarks

Well, I hope these numbers are useful to someone.

Credit

udon, for making this awesome game, I'm definitely sinking more time into this than I originally intended.
Teamish, for getting me fire up enough about this to actually write a new table of values.
The LW guide crew, for providing invaluable data for me to process. In particular, Reversal for starting that guide, Minaro and dist for doing a fine job maintaining it. Let me know if I missed anyone who is also maintaining it. You can find the LW guide at the following http://www.ninjamanager.net/showthread.php?t=487.

Update Log:
Spoiler:

2010-06-12, v0.1, started guide.
2010-06-09, v0.2, put in beginner LWs except ONE weapons and weapons with zero DV/DM.
2010-06-10, v0.3, put in easy LWs
2010-06-12, v0.4, put in medium and bijuu island LWs
2010-06-12, v0.5, correct a typo in my hybrid seal and high seal formula, only affects weapons with nin+reroll and tai+crit; added the formulas; corrected a typo in my internal table for Wondersword
2010-06-12, v1.0, added trends section; added "ONE" LWs, initial version of guide completed
2010-06-26, v1.01, updated extreme LW stats due to nerf
2010-06-29, v1.02, updated NI/TI LWs to reflect an increase in DV worth of NI/TI from 0.5 to 0.9
2010-06-30, v1.03, updated NI/TI LWs to reflect a decrease in DV worth of NI/TI from 0.9 to 0.6
2011-01-31, v1.1, re-formatted to accomodate Forbidden LWs, modified formulas based on a better understanding reroll/crit synergy, included AV values for comparison
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Old 06-09-2010, 03:48 AM   #11
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[spoiler].....[/spoiler*] Just take out the *.

Could you do a few LWs for me? Fury Fist, Nagrarok, Moonstone, Void Orb, Mana Sword, Zweihander, if you can manage.

Also, is this guide more trustworthy than the recent LW attack value guide made by Teamish?
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:18 AM   #12
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Well if you ask me, then of course I'll say yes.

But seriously though. DV is more accurate for progression. I want to say AV is more accurate for BA but I'm not certain as I have not looked at the value of LW for BA carefully yet. Someone should really do that because I think AV is outdated for BA as well.

In case you're not familiar, AV is "attack value", the numbers that Lunar made a few months ago, which Teamish is using for his guide.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:52 PM   #13
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WooW very good ;)
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:49 PM   #14
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LOL i dont get it
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:20 PM   #15
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the different colors represent how beneficial a LW is to each type of ninja. for example, a high seal ninja who already possesses immunity would benefit more from an immunity boost while reroll is near useless for them due to the low difference between their min and max damage. however, a low seal ninja would receive much more benefit from having a bit of reroll in order to maximize damage than to attempt to lower the damage they receive from others.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:13 AM   #16
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This is a Cowl guide it helps people decide what LW to hunt :D
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:45 AM   #17
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The guide's finally done!!!

Only took like a week...
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:33 AM   #18
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Hmm, yeah the Extreme LWs are far better than previous diffs, I think it mainly has to do with the fact that I didn't have a good overview of the worth of each stat, and that Extreme LWs are more WM oriented. I didn't really expect teams to have the time to get like 3-4 of them... more like 1-2 on their Extreme run. They are on Akatsuki Temple after all, but I guess the time between Otherworld beginning and Kyuubi is a pretty long one (can begin hunting Extreme LWs pretty soon with Ele adv and 3 ninjas).

I'm thinking of reducing their drop rate to 0,03 from 0,04. That might at least reduce the number you bring with you to Impossible by 1. I want to do something with Luna and Tornado Edge too... nothing big but maybe remove 5 atk from Luna, and 3/3 tai/nin from Tornado. That reminds me... time to begin the Tornado hunt for Imp. mode ;)

From the team I built with the kyuubi basher, impossible mode might just be finished faster than my Extreme run (blame lvl 26 shichibi ;)).
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udon View Post
I want to do something with Luna and Tornado Edge too... nothing big but maybe remove 5 atk from Luna, and 3/3 tai/nin from Tornado. That reminds me... time to begin the Tornado hunt for Imp. mode ;
I would rather see them unlocked on easy/medium than altering their stats.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:31 AM   #20
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luna needs to stay the way it is :( If it is gonna get nerfed tell me before i start hunting it xD
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