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View Poll Results: New BA Summon
I like the Piercer 36 83.72%
I like the Drainer 9 20.93%
I want Immunity to own BA forever 3 6.98%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2011, 09:52 AM   #1
Teamish
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Lightbulb New BA Summon

Hi there! After some time gathering opinions of several players and Udon himself, I decided to bring up an old suggestion about BA oriented summon. The camping game has spent too long in this current state and lots of players feel that a change would be very attractive.
Actually, you can find udon's opinion here: http://www.ninjamanager.net/showpost...3&postcount=10

I'm going to use the Gedo Mazo as example, due to existence of quality pics already, but can be changed to any other different one if players prefer so... no big deal about that!
Here's some info about the Gedo Mazo:
I'll propose two different concepts, the Piercer and the Drainer, explain both's advantages, disadvantages, playstyles and stats.


The Piercer:
Gedō Mazō 40 Chakra 1000 Ryo Demonic Statue
Red Fox Attack,Tai Immunity Down, Nin Immunity Down increased by 2.5 / 1 / 1 each level
Plain and simple, easy and neat. It's main role is to bypass defensive teams wich dont focus on attack. While being weaker than the rest of current BA summons, on equal level terms, it would have the upper hand against immunity summons. This brings it's main attractiveness: the rock/paper/scissor effect.

Gedo Mazo > Katsuyu > Manda, Gamaken, Lesser, etc > Gedo Mazo

This effect is present in both Naruto series (happening for instance between sannin's summons where toads beat slugs, slugs beat snakes, and snakes beat toads) and Ninjamanager (elements), but is not happening in the current BA system where Katsuyu, always talking in equal level and lw terms, absolutely dominates with no effort (if you are curious, just take a look at present Village Kages, the ridiculous kage fights, or top 20 teams).
So as you can see at the moment, Kats can only be countered with a higher level Kats (for those who still claim that Manda can actually own Kats, please take a closer look to these 2 teams and their kage fights:
http://www.ninjamanager.com/teams/69748 - Panicpul
http://www.ninjamanager.com/teams/128939 – Dark Legend )

Piercer Advantages: easily understandable, brings another dimension to kage fights, Cws, and team builds, uses recently added stats.
Piercer Disadvantages: very specific purpose, weak against the rest of BA summons, bad performance on world map.

*Piercer variation:
Gedō Mazō 38 Chakra 900 Ryo Demonic Statue
Red Fox Attack,Tai Immunity Down, Nin Immunity Down increased by 3 / 0.5 / 0.5 each level
Since Immunity is going to be nerfed (dont know when, but its been confirmed), players may feel it would be harsh to add a -Immunity summon, so this could help level terms for those well known Hidan+Hidan+Kats teams, and still add some diversity to BA and Cws.
Other solution could be apply the same nerf to -Immunity and Immunity, balancing the stats... but quoting Udon: "double the nerf, double confusing".


The Drainer:
Gedō Mazō 40 Chakra 1000 Ryo Demonic Statue
Red Fox Decreases Enemy Ninjutsu, Decreases Enemy Stamina, Tai Immunity Down increased by 5 / 3 / 1 each level
This summon concept, becomes closer to Gedo Mazo's description in manga
Spoiler:
drains bijuus, stamina and life of the enemies
, and brings a radical diversity to actual summon system (except Shinigami): its doesnt gimp your own team, all it does is nerf opponent's stats.


It would be effective, specially, against Katsuyu, Manda, Nin-Kame and Spirit Dragon builds; while Lesser Kyubi, Gamaken, and Hachibi builds would have pretty much the upper hand against this kind of team.


Drainer Advantages: hard to spot, versatility, originality.
Drainer Disadvantages: no real attack, no possible sinergies between stats, just decent WM performance (since you can get to stack missloted ninjas, +atk -stam lws, etc)

Drainer Variations:
Gedō Mazō 13 Chakra 500 Ryo Demonic Statue
Silver Star Decreases Enemy Stamina, Tai Immunity Down 5/1

Gedō Mazō 15 Chakra 600 Ryo Demonic Statue
Gold Star Decreases Enemy Stamina, Nin Immunity Down, Level5 Death 5/ 1/ 2
Clarifications:
  1. -Immunity summons DO NOT FIX THE IMMUNITY PROBLEM. Nerf is still necessary, this summon only "patches" slightly the issue, and it's main purpose is to bring some variety to actual system.
  2. For those who expressed their concers about the existence of -Imm Lws and summon, some food for thoughts:
    Number of Imm Lws: 25, they can be found through all dificulties
    Number of -Imm Lws: 9, can only be found on Bijuu island missions and FM
    .....and of course we dont want to talk about abilities!
    Number of Immunity summons: 2
    Number of -Immunity summons: 0
  3. Maybe some of you havent noticed yet, but Immunity can actually go above 100%, while -Immunity has a limited amount (max. achiavable atm is ~50% Imm on a single stat, we still dont know the stats of undiscovered Lws)
  4. This thread is repeated, just wanted to explain extensively and bring up the topic, you can find Mitoru's and Vincikun's suggestion here:
    http://www.ninjamanager.net/showthre...ight=gedo+mazo
http://www.ninjamanager.net/showthread.php?t=606
Sorry for the Wall of Text! I think that's more or less all, and hoping I made my point clear enough. Please discuss!
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:15 AM   #2
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I'm all into the Piercer option however I think Gedo Mazo should have at least a little bit of lvl 5 feath to fit more to the original. Also good job on linkng my thread.

Btw, by Gamaken you mean Gamabunta? Becouse i think Gamabunta fits more to what your reffering to.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitoru View Post
I'm all into the Piercer option however I think Gedo Mazo should have at least a little bit of lvl 5 feath to fit more to the original. Also good job on linkng my thread.

Btw, by Gamaken you mean Gamabunta? Becouse i think Gamabunta fits more to what your reffering to.
I did include your suggestion and a variation to the drainer with lvl5 death stat, but i didn't give too much importance to it, since there's already a Lvl5 oriented summon and its pretty easy to get 100% lvl5death in several ninjas.

And no, i mean Gamaken, Bunta is mainly futile. Ken is both a very good WM and BA summon: Atk+endurance is a dreadful combination when you use high growth ninjas
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:23 AM   #4
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Oh, what i meant is how Gamabunta clearly sucks comparing it to Katsuyu and Manda on any grounds and i though you're bringing that up.

@Edit
Damn typos. ._.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:17 PM   #5
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nice idea,this will surely make camping and whole NM more interesting.Campers will need to sweat a bit more to make new camping teams :D which sounds nice,does it?
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #6
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Gold star camping summon would also be nice. But to the topic, both summons would tweak the immunity issue a bit, I doubt udon will add them anytime soon though, same as the immunity nerf I guess. ;o
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:52 PM   #7
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The Piercer sound intressting but i think 2/2 is good enufhhh
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:48 PM   #8
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uhh... comparing Panicpul to Dark Legend doesn't make too much sense since it's a pretty flawed comparison.

You want people to compare an impossible level camper with tons of high quality camping LWs to a beginner level camper who's greatest item prior to event was a Luna Sword?

If anything, the only thing I take out of comparing the two teams is how obvious of an impact hard mode and on LW has on adding effective levels to the ninjas on a team.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:48 PM   #9
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i like the piercer , cause it has atack and -inmunity so its perfect against the super defensive teams , plus is not so useless against others summon cause u have +2 atack so at least u have something to fight them.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:00 PM   #10
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''Dont forget kids!''
''The higher your post count is , the bigges your penis is!''

Hell yeah.


Anyway , nin/tai immunity down is the answer to everything.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #11
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i like the first one, its a great idea, gj guys on getting that far in planning :)

nice to see a really well thought out idea ^^
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet View Post
''Dont forget kids!''


Anyway , nin/tai immunity down is the answer to everything.
No....Thats not the answer...
The answer is rework to immunity....
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
uhh... comparing Panicpul to Dark Legend doesn't make too much sense since it's a pretty flawed comparison.

You want people to compare an impossible level camper with tons of high quality camping LWs to a beginner level camper who's greatest item prior to event was a Luna Sword?

If anything, the only thing I take out of comparing the two teams is how obvious of an impact hard mode and on LW has on adding effective levels to the ninjas on a team.
Hoho, sure a pretty flawed comparison! Just wanted to show an example of real and actual teams... But sure, as you wish! We can play a little game:
Take for instance, a full lvl 80 Panicpul team, no elements, no stats (wich ofc benefits Manda), the same exact lws he usually uses; make 1 team with a lvl 45 Kats and another with a lvl 45 Manda.
Both are exactly the same in everything, except for the summon... easy right?

Now, do a battle simulation! ^_^

I'm not gonna bore ppl with numbers, but you can do the sim yourself, i'll lend you the tools:
Hinata: angel slayer, tortoise mail, 800
Yondaime: ragnarok, mjolnir, mace of zeus
Itachi fnk: genji, demon hit, onion sword
Tobi: masamune, psionic, deathbringer (i'm not going to take in consideration lvl5death stat)
Hidan: 800, skull rod, dragon whisker
HidanK: 800, aegis, dragon shield

How does it end??

So if your argument is about OP lws, sure they give a huge leap on level, but since its about summons, equal teams, at this point, the result is pretty obvious...

Gj on the constructive criticism ^_^

PS. try switching and changing lws, the result is mainly the same. If you wish me to post battle develop, just ask
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:53 PM   #14
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Piercer. It doesn't really brings up any disadvantages since it's being created for a specific role (BA imun pwnage). Thus not using it in WM or expecting to fare against other BA summons just makes him more stable, as in you get what you wanted and expected an noting more. Kinda reminds me of good old SD teams trying to be a counter to Manda and I hope GM actually sticks to it's potential.

BTW I just started camping with an imun setup on my alt >.> Curses for my sense of timing.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:53 PM   #15
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I like the 1st variation of the drainer
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:08 PM   #16
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ripbitch u said everything we talked about our hot pcs :P

anyway, its a good idea to make - immune summons, since it got already some immune summons :o and maybe some more -immune lws like the Darkness


Gj Babe, now lets go sleep togheter :o
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:09 PM   #17
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Just make it nin up / reroll / nin immunity down 4 / 3 / 1 and all will be okey... Well you may think the numbers are lame, you can change the numbers if you want, they are just random numbers i came up with, but this one is the exact summon i need xD
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young and dangerous View Post
Just make it nin up / reroll / nin immunity down 4 / 3 / 1 and all will be okey... Well you may think the numbers are lame, you can change the numbers if you want, they are just random numbers i came up with, but this one is the exact summon i need xD
That would be so OP. not only the numbers, but the stats too.
teamish, I voted for piercing but never commented... thought it was obvious why \o/
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:37 PM   #19
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I voted for piercer as well. Because it also looks overpowered and it will be good for me to have that :D 2.5 unreduced attack with %1 reduce to both immunities per level... Im not sure immunity team owners will be very happy to see this summon in action xD
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:58 PM   #20
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I think the Piercer option is perfect, it doesn't OP the non-immunity teams but gives them sufficient ammunition to be competitive against the plethora of Katsuyu teams reigning over BA..

+1 for me +1 from my mother +1 for you mother (she says hi btw).
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