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Old 07-27-2013, 03:55 PM   #61
kuuya03
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In line with kbee kage boost,tsunade seems UP

Tsunade
Tai 95+6.6
Nin 40+1.6
Sta 11+0.8
Res 20+1.1
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #62
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I'm in the progress of updating the ninjas now, but I gotta ask... the starter ninja/transmigrated boost. They seem pointless? +0.1 or +0.2 sta growth. It won't matter the slightest. 1 more stamina every 10 levels (and you dont even use them past lvl 20 ish)? I'm going to skip updating all of those unless someone gives a good reason :P Otherwise it's just a lot of time spent manually editing numbers with a high chance of messing up somwhere :)
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #63
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Boost the Nin/Tai up abit then :3
a 0.1/0.2 change would be useful for attack but not make them OP
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Old 08-17-2013, 12:54 AM   #64
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only concern about starter genins' stamina which anson proposed to add 0.2 to all except lee and kin TM is evident in impossible mode where 60*0.2 = 12 additional stamina so either just add them straight to base stamina (could be if a new feature in impo mode, if player is on impo mode, stamina=+12) or add 0.2 stamina to all genins except lee and kin TM :) or just ignore and say that it can be compensated with a stam lw ;)
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Old 08-17-2013, 01:31 AM   #65
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I feel like stam growth isnt particular necessary as stam is easily obtained and also have a cap, unlike if it was nin/tai growth. On higher difficulties, there really isnt need for that +.2/.1 for starters since that can be easily compensated with the lws anyways, and even without that .2 i m still gonna put some stam items on them regardless. I rather them be at say 95 stamina with higher atk than 107 stam with less atk.

Instead of wasting Udon's time manually adjusting numbers, I rather he spend more time on other much more needed things for nm.
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Old 08-17-2013, 02:20 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrison View Post
I feel like stam growth isnt particular necessary as stam is easily obtained and also have a cap, unlike if it was nin/tai growth. On higher difficulties, there really isnt need for that +.2/.1 for starters since that can be easily compensated with the lws anyways, and even without that .2 i m still gonna put some stam items on them regardless. I rather them be at say 95 stamina with higher atk than 107 stam with less atk.

Instead of wasting Udon's time manually adjusting numbers, I rather he spend more time on other much more needed things for nm.
For people who are not so lucky with LW, they cannot afford to spend extra time on hunting stam LW to make their genin good enough to tank. Besides, the practice of using starter genin for endgame is not limited to Impossible. So this seemly-insignificant buff can actually help a lot of higher difficulties players to stop choosing starters with good stamina growth or/and stamina-giving abilities.

It is okay if this change for Genin is not implemented with the rest of revamps as Easy mode does not require the use of non-TM starter for endgame. We can actually spend more time on discussing it.
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:01 AM   #67
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However, when boosting everyones sta growth by this little margin, nothing really changes. If Lee is too good we could just reduce his sta growth or something. I would guess the majority of the issues can be found in their abilities. I think "the better" ninjas have always been picked because of their abilities (Itachi and Chiyo +60 ninjutsu anyone? While some old ninjas have like +40 wind advantage instead).

Anyway, I have updated the other ninjas now :)
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #68
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Nerfing Lee starter sounds easier to code so it is definitely possible.

Thanks for updating the game guide, but it appears that only the Jounins revamps are visible as the guide entries for the Kages and combo have not changed yet. I know that you have updated their actual stats (for the Kages at least) since I can see their updated stats in WM shops lol.

Edit: The Strange Trio combo has yet to update. I have also updated the first post to make it easier for players to know who have been buffed. Please see the Implemented Change section for the proposed change to Strange Trio combo.

Last edited by anson; 08-17-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #69
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boost gai CS stam to .9
44 ck
TAI 83+6.5
NIN 11+1
STA 11+0.9
RES 5+0.5

Spoiler:
[EDIT]Naruto - gold3 tailed beast
Tai 96+6.6
Nin 21+0.0
Seal 9
Ck 26
ave attack: 59 /88 /121 /154 /187 /220

[EDIT]Kisame Kage
tai 105 +5.4
nin 43 +3.4
74/114/ 158/ 202/ 246/290

or just up his base by 10


Pain Kage 40 ck
tai 96+6
nin 96+2.9

Naruto 70ck halved should have +20 base attack more like the beast except different growth
Bijuu cloak
TAI 130+6.6
NIN 120+3.2

Spoiler:

tai+ nin = total
3.1 4.2 = 7.3 kakashi
2.5+ 5.7 =8.1 tobi
3.0+ 5.3 =8.1 madara
6.7+ 1.3 =8 mizukage
3.6+ 3.8= 7.4 muu
5.9+ 1.2 =7.1 raikage
6.7+ 0.7 =7.4 mifune
0.4 5 =5.4 onoki
1.7+ 50. =6.7 kaze
6.6+0 = 6.6 3 tails
5.6+ 2.2 =7.8 4 tails
6.0+ 1.8=7.8 kbee
2.9+ 5.0=7.9 mei
5.2 +2.6 =7.8 ebizou
2.6+ 5.2=7.8 chiyo
6.6 +1.6 =8.4 tsunade
3.4 +4.8 =8.2 jiraiya
0.8 +7.4 = 8.2 orochi
5.3+ 3.4 = 8.7 kisame (proposed, currently 8.1 with low base)
2.0+6.0= 8 konan
5.0+ 3.2=8.2 hidan
3.2 +5.4 = 8.6 sasuke
3.4 +5.1=8.6 hanzo


EDIT

I say dont bother with A since his stam and kinda high base is to compensate his abs (that crit chance is 800 is really nothing) while i agree that you can nerf 3rd raikage

I looked at shisui's 400 and compared it to muu's and.... so I propose higher stam for muu so at level 30 he needs FSP then at 40 he can have ame (a way to close the gap between 50ck kages)
Muu
Invisible Man
Tai 66 + 3.6
Nin 64 + 3.8
Sta 18 + 1.3
Res 13 + 1.1
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Last edited by kuuya03; 08-28-2014 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:45 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuya03 View Post
Last minute suggestion change

4th kazekage-bronze
Unknown
Tai 62+4.4
Nin 52+2.6
Seal 9
Ck 34

Considering his he's high ck,low stam but bronze kage and its easy to get to silver so there's only little diff to 20 ck kages
3.5 atk growth would make him too good for his availability, so maybe this:

4th Kazekage
Rather Unknown
Tai 62 + 4.4
Nin 52 + 2.4
Sta 11 + 0.7
Res 14 + 0.7
Seal 9
Ck 34

His existence feels like a placeholder anyway, as he should either get his rightful moveset (Gold Dust) or his impersonator's (Orochimaru). But I know that is impossible to touch now.

I know it is kinda late but these existing ninjas may need a buff as well:
Naruto 3-tailed (Awkward position, is not that much better than Danzo to make up for the much later availability)
Deidara Kage (Attack kinda low compared to other junior Akatsuki Kages)
Tobi Kage (A nerf may be needed when he looks better than Pain Kage in many ways, or people prefer buffing Pain Kage instead lol)
Sasuke 350 (Below avg attack, not above avg sta/res, other than the base res)
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:10 AM   #71
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Just want to have a second round of balance to adapt to the new environment constructed by new ninjas. Please check the first post and see if there are any more ninjas that need attention. Be noted that there is currently no plan for when these changes will be implemented.

Edit: Some suggestions for discussions:

Sasuke
Heaven Seal
Tai 24 + 2.4
Nin 26 + 4.3
Sta 10 + 0.7
Res 29 + 0.9
Seal 7
Ck 34

A
Smasher
Tai 85 + 5.3
Nin 36 + 1.5
Sta 22 + 1.2
Res 28 + 1.2
Seal 8
Ck 38

3rd Raikage
Strongest Shield
Tai 76 + 5.8
Nin 35 + 1.2
Sta 32 + 1.5
Res 28 + 0.7
Seal 18
Ck 42

Muu
Invisible Man
Tai 66 + 3.6
Nin 64 + 3.8
Sta 12 + 1.1
Res 13 + 1.1
Seal 7
Ck 44

Deidara
C0 Suicide
Tai 120 + 0
Nin 50 + 8.3
Sta 20 + 1
Res 30 + 1
Seal 10
Ck 72

Last edited by anson; 12-01-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:58 PM   #72
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My thoughts to your suggestions, Anson :

Sasuke : I think that change fixes him pretty well, he is below average with his base damage, this would fix that problem. Compensating by taking some base Res away does not hurt either, since he got really high base Res atm and its not really that important a stat anyways, specially in the early difficulties where the 350s are normaly used.

A : Personally, I think A's tai and nin growth are fine. I dont think it should be lower than that of the other silver Kages. Comparing him to Shodaime who also uses 38 Chakra, one can see that its rather the Stam ( and Res if someone cares for it ) that let him shine there, so I would rather reduce his Stam Growth to like 1.1 and or his base to 18 to 20, nothing big. Though i personally think he is fine the way he is, rather give Shodaime a little buff in Stam ( base and/or growth ) so that the silver kages are even again.

3rd Raikage : Reducing his base Tai might be something to major, its probably better to just reduce his base Nin if you want to reduce his damage by a bit, since he revolves around Tai a lot with his crit abs. Why do people pick him over other HS Silver Kages like Nida ... I'd say its his better Stam growth, better abs and better Tai growth, which is more usefull for a HS Ninja, since you can make use of Tai with crits. To be fair though he costs 1 Chakra more, which can really hurt ( in extreme for example, you can only use him with Crustacean, not with Gobi though, if you plan for the starter / 2FNG / 2 FNJ / Silver Kage set up that normaly includes Gobi ). Imo reduce his Stam growth to 1.4 or 1.3, if anything at all.

Muu : While the balanced LS makes him probably unattractive in many players eyes, the major problem is his Stamina. Thus I would agree with that change you suggested.

Deidara : Comparing him to Hidan is probably easiest. While they got the same base, Hidans growth is slightly higher with 0.3 despite his lower chakra costs. I would even buff it to 8.4, but he got 10 more base Stam than Hidan as well, so 8.3 might be enough, though it should atleast be 8.3 .

Kisame : Not exactly listed in your above post, though he was disscussed a little earlier already. His Growth atm is 8.1 "only", but he therefore comes with the lowest Chakra costs from all the AT Kages and also got amazing Stam growth. His base Nin and Tai are a little weak though. Thats why I would suggest something like this

Kisame
Shark Fusion
Tai 111 + 4.7
Nin 47 + 3.4
Sta 26 + 1.5
Res 24 + 1.2
Seal 10
Ck 64

Pain : I saw him under critic as well, compared to Tobi. Looking at them both, Pain is clearly the HS version, while Tobi is the LS guy. They got same base and growth, though the Stamina is pretty different

Tobi 15 + 1
Pain 9 + 0.6

It's a pretty huge difference imo, so I would buff both the growth and base.

Pain 20 + 0.8

This might seem like a huge buff, but if you consider his rather weak abs and the fact that he is the one hardest to obtain in the AT its rather fair I think. Since the AT Kages are used at most up to Easy difficulty (normally) their lvls are rather low and so better base Stam seems to be the best option for the AT Kages.

As mentioned above the AT Kages usually dont reach high lvls ( for progression that is ), which makes Kages like Kisame, Deidara, Kakuzu, (Itachi, he got nice abs ... ) rather unattractive, since they all have that seal of 10. One would need them to be lvl 36 for the ideal seal, which is quite above the average beating lvls of Beginner and Easy. I would suggest to change the starting seals of every AT Kage to something that is not 9 10 or 11 , since those are seals that require the kage to be quite high lvled for Seal 1 or 19 which one usually wants to reach.

My suggestions for new starting seals:
Deidara : 4
Itachi : 8
Kisame : 13
Kakuzu : 12

Not sure in what direction people usually go with Kakuzu, HS or LS. But i don't think People will usually take LS Kisame or HS Deidara, Itachi.

Well, thats it, just some thoughts from me :)

Last edited by XaK0R; 04-19-2014 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:01 PM   #73
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Thanks for sharing your views and sorry for taking so long to reply. I was busy with end-of-semester papers and exams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaK0R View Post
My thoughts to your suggestions, Anson :

Sasuke : I think that change fixes him pretty well, he is below average with his base damage, this would fix that problem. Compensating by taking some base Res away does not hurt either, since he got really high base Res atm and its not really that important a stat anyways, specially in the early difficulties where the 350s are normaly used.
Yeah in terms of stats he IS balanced, but in terms of practical-ness he is terrible for being good at a rather useless stats and inferior at other stats.

Quote:
A : Personally, I think A's tai and nin growth are fine. I dont think it should be lower than that of the other silver Kages. Comparing him to Shodaime who also uses 38 Chakra, one can see that its rather the Stam ( and Res if someone cares for it ) that let him shine there, so I would rather reduce his Stam Growth to like 1.1 and or his base to 18 to 20, nothing big. Though i personally think he is fine the way he is, rather give Shodaime a little buff in Stam ( base and/or growth ) so that the silver kages are even again.
There are basically two ways to fix him and either seems fine:

a) Nerf stam to the level of Shodai so he will be a Tai version of him
b) Nerf attack so he will be like his father who focuses more on sta than attack

Even with the way it is now, I believe Shodai is balanced with better seal and abilities. But I can see the possibility of nerfing both sta and atk a little bit instead of focusing the nerf on one aspect. Something like this maybe?:

A
Smasher
Tai 85 + 5.4
Nin 38 + 1.5
Sta 21 + 1.1
Res 28 + 1.2
Seal 8
Ck 38

Quote:
3rd Raikage : Reducing his base Tai might be something to major, its probably better to just reduce his base Nin if you want to reduce his damage by a bit, since he revolves around Tai a lot with his crit abs. Why do people pick him over other HS Silver Kages like Nida ... I'd say its his better Stam growth, better abs and better Tai growth, which is more usefull for a HS Ninja, since you can make use of Tai with crits. To be fair though he costs 1 Chakra more, which can really hurt ( in extreme for example, you can only use him with Crustacean, not with Gobi though, if you plan for the starter / 2FNG / 2 FNJ / Silver Kage set up that normaly includes Gobi ). Imo reduce his Stam growth to 1.4 or 1.3, if anything at all.
The general feedback from people using him is that he is so good at beginning and so bad at endgame, so reducing his growth would make this problem worse. The strategic way to use it for modes like Extreme, imo, is to find good Crit LW to make up for the inferior attack, since you can almost ignore the trouble of finding sta for him.

Quote:
Muu : While the balanced LS makes him probably unattractive in many players eyes, the major problem is his Stamina. Thus I would agree with that change you suggested.
Yeah, his sta really makes him look bad compared to Trollkage.

Quote:
Deidara : Comparing him to Hidan is probably easiest. While they got the same base, Hidans growth is slightly higher with 0.3 despite his lower chakra costs. I would even buff it to 8.4, but he got 10 more base Stam than Hidan as well, so 8.3 might be enough, though it should atleast be 8.3 .
Comparing him to Hidan is what I had in mind. I have also considered the huge difference in abilities so hopefully an 8.3 growth Deidara is balanced.

Quote:
Kisame : Not exactly listed in your above post, though he was disscussed a little earlier already. His Growth atm is 8.1 "only", but he therefore comes with the lowest Chakra costs from all the AT Kages and also got amazing Stam growth. His base Nin and Tai are a little weak though. Thats why I would suggest something like this

Kisame
Shark Fusion
Tai 111 + 4.7
Nin 47 + 3.4
Sta 26 + 1.5
Res 24 + 1.2
Seal 10
Ck 64
I mainly compare him to Konan as they can both be used for Hard endgame. But now he can also be compared to Danzo, which makes him look really bad. So I agree with the changes you suggested.

Quote:
Pain : I saw him under critic as well, compared to Tobi. Looking at them both, Pain is clearly the HS version, while Tobi is the LS guy. They got same base and growth, though the Stamina is pretty different

Tobi 15 + 1
Pain 9 + 0.6

It's a pretty huge difference imo, so I would buff both the growth and base.

Pain 20 + 0.8

This might seem like a huge buff, but if you consider his rather weak abs and the fact that he is the one hardest to obtain in the AT its rather fair I think. Since the AT Kages are used at most up to Easy difficulty (normally) their lvls are rather low and so better base Stam seems to be the best option for the AT Kages.
Have you looked at the proposed change to him on front page? We boosted his base attack by a considerable amount to compensate for his bad sta and abs.

Quote:
As mentioned above the AT Kages usually dont reach high lvls ( for progression that is ), which makes Kages like Kisame, Deidara, Kakuzu, (Itachi, he got nice abs ... ) rather unattractive, since they all have that seal of 10. One would need them to be lvl 36 for the ideal seal, which is quite above the average beating lvls of Beginner and Easy. I would suggest to change the starting seals of every AT Kage to something that is not 9 10 or 11 , since those are seals that require the kage to be quite high lvled for Seal 1 or 19 which one usually wants to reach.

My suggestions for new starting seals:
Deidara : 4
Itachi : 8
Kisame : 13
Kakuzu : 12

Not sure in what direction people usually go with Kakuzu, HS or LS. But i don't think People will usually take LS Kisame or HS Deidara, Itachi.

Well, thats it, just some thoughts from me :)
Sorry but its impossible to change starting seals. The 10-seal ones we haven't mentioned seem good enough in stats to make up for their bad seal.
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